Destiny 2 Theories & the Illusion of In-Game Control

Wow, what a show we've got lined up today, man.

We got four topics.

Listen, these are.

These are boom Headshot topics.

Some of the best things.

Am I sounding like a gamer?

Hey man, these are boom.

These are boom Headshot topics.

One shot, no scope topic.

I can't wait for it.

That's my job, man.

That's my job.

We're a weekly gaming podcast where our mission is simple.

To bring to light and discuss topics that have an impact on our gaming hobby.

And at the same time highlighting our diverse gamer community.

Also remaining dedicated to our origins.

Guardian Down.

Join me, Todd the Gator and my co host, Kingsley Mack as we invite a rotating list of guest co hosts every week to join us at the Guardian Down Roundtable.

And now let's get to it.

What's up Guardians?

Welcome to episode 372 of the Guardian Down Roundtable.

In our podcast we talk about topics and news that impact our gaming hobby, all while keeping a focus on the community.

We go live every Thursday night, 9pm Eastern on my Todd the Gator YouTube and Twitch channels and as well as our Discord Live stage.

Hello everybody.

We go.

We actually are actually a live video show, but we have a audio version available every Monday morning very, very early.

So.

But I really like the live shows because we can interact with you guys in the chat in, in real time.

It's really cool.

So jump in, give us your input tonight.

Cause we got a lot of hot takes tonight.

Mike is resting up from his Alaska cruise and we'll see him next week.

I'm sure he'll.

We'll find out how his trip went last week and what Alaska's like.

Cause I've never been to Alaska so I'm interested to see how he.

How he did on his cruise.

Let's introduce our guest co host tonight.

He's been a part of our community since the beginning, pretty much over six years now.

He's been on various shows throughout the years with his first interview back on episode 131 in January of 2022.

Every time he's on the show, we can get into some really good discussions around gaming and life.

So please welcome Cam the jelly man who just so happens to be my son.

What's up Kim Pops?

Hey everybody.

Wow, what a show we've got lined up today.

We.

Man, we got four topics.

They're not.

They're not.

Listen, these are.

These are boom Headshot topics.

Some of the best things.

Am I sounding like a gamer?

Hey man, these are boom.

These are boom Headshot topics.

One shot, no scope topics.

This, this is, I can't wait for it.

That's my job, man.

That's my job.

So, okay, first, what is on our show tonight?

First, we're going to mention some news.

We got a little bit of news to talk about before we get into our main topic this week.

By the way, if you have an article or a video or a topic or anything you want us to talk about surrounding our gaming hobby, make sure you put them in our gaming articles for Roundtable channel in our discord.

And that discord again is Discord.

Gg, Guardian down Roundtable.

It's right there on the bottom left hand corner if you're watching our video version of our show.

Once we're done with the gaming news though, it's the topic of the week.

You know, I sometimes ask our new show guest the question why game?

What is it about our gaming hobby?

We gamers are certainly not average, that's for sure.

But there's something different about us.

And once you, once you kind of find out another person in real life as a gamer, you kind of both come to an understanding of what we represent.

And we're going to dive a little bit deeper into that tonight, kind of that thought process.

After which point we'll shift our to our catch up segment where we'll share any of your highlights of our week and talk to Cam what he's been doing since he's been on the show last.

And I have one movie review also to share this week.

And at the end of the show, if time allows, we'll answer questions and feedback from our community.

So if you have a question for us, make sure you entered in our podcast questions channel in our Discord community and we might read it live on the show.

And remember, if you want to send us a voicemail or email, it's guardian downcast.com to find out more about that.

So if everyone's ready, let's roll.

Hi, this is fluffy fingers, MD, from potato thumbs Podcast, the podcast that you never knew existed.

I am here to tell you that you are listening to Guardian down the squarest coffee table around.

Okay, first up, we wanted to talk about PlayStation this week.

I came across this on my one of my Google alerts and I don't know if you guys watched the 26 minute gameplay reveal of GTA 6.

I don't know if you saw it, Cam, but I did watch it.

I must say it looked very good.

I could actually pick out the freckles on Lucia's leg in the gameplay.

I Mean, it really looked good, it looked real to me.

But I don't know.

But here's the thing that was played or that was broadcast on a base PS5 and Sony squeaked out a little bit of knowledge that they have even more enhancements that are going to be on the PS5 Pro.

And because of that statement, PS5 Pros are selling out everywhere.

And in the article it states that finding a PS5 Pro at its standard 899 MSRP is incredibly difficult as standard retail channels are temporarily exhausted.

Nobody has PS5 pros right now, I guess.

The following updates highlight where you can track inventory or consider alternative options.

First, the official stores.

This is how I got mine actually.

I had a, I had a friend of my daughter's that actually camped out online and was able to snake one when they, they, they, they release like a certain variety, like a certain amount, like a fixed amount and usually they sell out like within minutes.

It's crazy.

Of course you get the major retailers online, I think they're sold out right now.

But you can go to major chains like Best Buy, Target, Walmart, Amazon.

I think they said Amazon actually is completely sold through their base inventory as well.

Then you have, you can go and get open box or pre owned ones if you, you know, if you need a unit immediately your best localized option is to check open box or pre owned units.

Checking availability online through regional inventory tools at Best Buy Open box listing or GameStop pre owned may reveal stock depending on the location.

And then you have the third party resellers.

You're going to pay a chunk for those.

That's we're talking ebay and Facebook Marketplace, all those other places that people will scalp them and really try to make them make a bunch of money for them.

I think they're saying, they're saying they're selling them for anywhere from 12 to $1400.

So you're going to pay like a $400 premium.

But like I said, this is all from that 26 minute grand theft Auto extended look showcase that they had on Netflix and then six hours later on YouTube.

But it has been crazy.

They've been just selling like crazy.

And the thing is the game's not even out yet and people are charging to get these PS5 Pros.

I just want to mention that if you're, you know, if you saw the 26 minute reveal for GTA 6 and you want to get those enhancements on a PS5 Pro and you might want to consider those options that I mentioned above.

Cam, what do you think about this, man.

I know you're not a console player and you're probably.

GTA is not even your radar because you're a PC player and it's not available on PC.

Right.

I don't know, is it, is it coming out like a year later or something on PC?

If history repeats itself, I think so.

Probably another year for Steam gets it.

I watched the trailer, I saw it said like November 16th or something.

Yep.

But they'll definitely move it to PC eventually.

There's just no like way around it.

Especially with the popularity of like the, the role playing servers and everything.

Yeah, what, what do I think about the, the panic buying of PS5 pros?

I, I think, I think.

Mr. Sony, we need some more PS5 pros.

Stack.

Get, get those, get those robots on the assembly line going.

Mr. Sony, Mr. Sony, please help us.

We need PS5 pros for GTA 6 guys.

Yeah, exactly.

It's a big problem.

It's a big problem.

Well, I tell you what, that leads to our next, our next topic in the news and that is that Sony is not really worried about selling more units there.

They have publicly announced, in fact in, in I think on gamescom they were talking about, I think Totoki the, the, the CEO or, or the head of PlayStation games here in America.

I think he was noted that he said that he.

Let's see, I'm going to look at it here, trying to make sure I get the right story here.

Nope, that's not it.

Let's see.

There we.

Oh, anyway, I can't find it.

But anyway, what they, he kind of actually blurted this out by accident and said hey, we really don't care about making more consoles and you know, we're not in a big hurry to flood the market with a bunch of consoles.

Their objective is to maximize every penny from its current what, 180, 190 million users that use PlayStation consoles right now.

So they, that is what they are focusing on is squeezing every cent they can and maximizing revenue from its existing player base.

So isn't like the whole thing with like consoles like it, it appeals to people who can't afford PCs?

Yes, that's what consoles used to be.

Okay, so they're like, hey, let's, let's take the people who are already, you know, they're, you know, they, they.

I guess it's geared more towards a budget.

Yeah.

Especially with PC part prices.

How.

Listen Mr. PlayStation CEO, we really gotta get down to the brass tax here.

How do we extract every little last dollar from the people who bought the budget option?

How can we do that for the rest of its life cycle?

Right.

What, what's it gonna do?

Just cancel the movies that people buy again or whatever it was?

Yeah.

Are they gonna make you buy a game, I don't know, multiple times?

Like, like Skyrim additions or something like that?

Yeah, we got another membership on our hands.

Exactly.

It just seems like what, what revenue is there really to extract other than, well, like in game purchases and, and games and.

Well, I can tell you one thing,.

Maybe that'll be a big thing with GTA 6.

I don't know.

I did, I did a, a topic along, I think three or four shows ago and it was how, you know, since the cost of consoles will keep going up, how can these console makers make more money if they're, you know, losing money selling consoles because they are so expensive or less people buy them?

Let's say a PS.

I think we talked about this.

A PS6 comes out say in 2028 and they cost $1,200.

Well, because they're $1,200, you've basically eliminated probably three fourths of your market because most people are dropping down 500 bucks or even 6 or 800 bucks on a, on a PS5 Pro because they can't afford a $2,000 computer to run these games on high or ultra settings.

Computers aren't like $2,000 now.

It's like the graphics card, it's like $2,000.

It's.

Yeah, it's, it's crazy.

It's.

Gaming has gotten so expensive for everybody.

So the ram is like 500 bucks or something.

It's ridiculous.

It's ridiculous and it's so one of the ways, I think, if I remember on that topic I was talking about is they can increase their subscription price, which very well might be what they do to maximize that revenue.

Like, like Totoki mentioned.

But he, I don't think he meant to say that.

I think he kind of just came out at GamesCon.

But I don't know.

I just want to mention that because that was, I think that was tweeted out.

I can't remember who tweeted it, but I wanted to mention that game GamesCon was not good for PlayStation this week because I have another story from GamesCon and that is, you know, that GamesCom, you know, we know, wrapped up its, everything was wrapped up this past week and there are rumors that Sony is reconsidering its digital only future due to Xbox's a 100% physical game strategy.

I mean you may think that console wars are irrelevant anymore, but I assure you Sony is paying attention to its competition.

And like I said, it's just a rumor at this point, but we're going to see.

But what do you think about this, Cam?

Do you think Sony will reverse course and start making physical games again?

Probably not.

If, if that's like their strategic plan, probably not going to do that.

The.

Did you say the PlayStation CEO, like accidentally, like, said like, well, the fact that they're not about subscriptions?

No, he actually, he actually blurted out that they weren't really, really too.

They weren't panicking about selling more PS5 units.

That they were.

Their main strategy was to maximize their revenue on their existing user base, which I gotta admit is like almost 200 million consoles out there.

PS5s and PS4s and I think PS3s, they've stopped developing anything for.

But PS4 and PS5s, I mean, you're talking almost 200 million consoles out there.

The whole thing with physical media as well.

Like, if you don't have Internet, can you like even launch some games even if you have the disc?

Like half the disks nowadays are just like, you put it in, then you installed 20 gigs via the cloud or something through updates and texture packs and yeah, all this other stuff, like, even if, like, I don't know how much value there is to physical hardware with consoles.

I mean, maybe it works differently for Xbox, I don't know.

But for Sony, I mean, that seems like the strategic kind of position they put themselves in.

That's kind of been like what things have been trending towards for like over the last decade or so.

Well, just to catch you up, I know you don't follow consoles much because you're, you're a PC player, but Xbox came out with this 100% physical strategy where you can put in your physical disc, it will make a digital copy for you and you have the license, you own the license for that game and say you want to take that, say you want to take that disc out and you want to sell it to somebody else, then there's a process where you can put the license back on the disc and go sell it at your local store or sell it on ebay or whatever.

So that's, that's how they're really whack.

That's how they're, that's how they're going to keep the 100% physical.

That's whack.

You don't, you don't own it then you own a license?

No, you Own.

You own.

Sound like the whole problem.

Well, you own.

You own a CD that represents a digital license.

Well, I mean the game is.

What they're basically doing is converting your physical disc into, into a basic digital license, into a di.

Well in a digital form too, I think.

And you just, I think you just store the disc whenever you want to sell it or transfer it.

But that, that's super whack.

Well, I'm just saying that's, that's like.

Barely, that's barely even.

The whole point of physical media is.

Like it's a collection.

You own it.

Well, it's not even that it's a collection necessarily.

It's that you don't, you're not like relied on.

You don't have to rely on like DRM and stuff like that.

Y.

Like I know when I like get a game from like I don't know, gog, which is good old games on for PC, you get the executable.

There's no DRM for it.

Right.

Like, I know if I, you know, let, let's say we're in like some kind of post apocalyptic, post apocalyptic, freaking post apocalyptic.

Yeah, there you go.

Yeah, yeah.

Post apocalypse world.

And I have that on my hard drive and I, you know, I get enough water turbines turn into power my PC for I don't know, an hour.

Like if I, if I launch one of the executables for those games, I'm going to be able to play it like you truly own it when it's.

When you actually like have the data and there's nothing like restricting you from accessing it.

Yeah, with the whole Xbox thing it sounds like super whack.

With the digital license that's bestowed upon you by a cd, it's really like they're going down the funko pop route of like look guys, this is physical media.

This is a collectible.

Guys, it's.

It's going to be really cool for you guys to buy these CDs that are essentially just like a physical representation of like the same thing.

Yeah, but I don't know, I'm just.

That doesn't, it doesn't like scratch the same itch.

It just feels like fan service or like again like you know, they're just funko popping it.

This is my only physical disc for PS5.

I got it for Christmas.

Mom got it for me.

It's Modern Warfare 3 on disc.

You know how much of a pain in the ass this is to have to put in my disc drive every time I want to play it?

And Then when it, you know, starts spinning up, that I still have to download updates.

And I think half this disc or half of the game is still on my hard drive.

I don't think it's saving any space.

I swear to God, I think this is just a key to download the game on my console.

Anyway, that's.

That's just how it is.

That's that drm, right?

So the thing is.

And here's the thing.

Well, drm, yeah, it's.

But DRM is Digital Rights management, right?

So it's like if you.

Again, it's like if you put in a cd, is it like pinging with the server to check that you have the license?

Well, is it like, does it have to ping a server to be like, hey, you can't play this because you have to download a patch from our servers first?

Well, if it does anything like that, then, yeah, it's DRM.

So Xbox, PlayStation, Steam, to some degree, stuff like the Epic Store, custom game launchers, like, I don't know, League of Legends, or if it says Wizard Launcher,.

If it says network required.

This is.

This is useless because you have to be connected to their servers to play this game.

I can't.

I can't grab this disc, put it in my PS5 and play the campaign.

I still have to check in with Activision.

Okay, dad, it's like this.

You remember the PlayStation 1 CDs that you.

That you burned?

I don't know.

I don't know how you came into such an illustrious collection of illegal CDs that were legally duplicated.

I'm well out of the statutes of limitations for that, so I'm not worried about saying that.

I did burn some d. I did 120 games.

I burned.

I burned it.

Well, I mean, I modded my.

My PlayStation, my PlayStation 1.

I modded it where it could read regular CDs that I would burn the game to.

And like that.

That's what ownership's about, is like the ability to do stuff like that.

It's your game.

You bought the game.

But like I said.

But here, here's.

Here's the thing, though.

I mean, here's my take on all this physical games thing.

Eventually, I think, due to public and possibly governmental pressure, I think there will be a digital rights bill passed in the United States and obviously other countries.

China did, you know, is already ahead of the game and they allow digital, quote, ownership rights to be passed down to family members upon their death.

In fact, I looked it up because I wanted to see exactly what China Offers here it says China legally recognizes digital assets as protected property.

It is true.

Digital goods and accounts can be inherited by family members upon death.

This approach differs significantly from Western jurisdictions where digital storefronts such as Steam, Apple, Sony generally grant a non transferable personal license that expires with the account holder.

So yeah, they have all the legal statutes here talking about how you can register on your.

In your will.

There's a will registration where you can register your digital rights.

So they know to pass those or transfer those to someone else in your family, possibly probably your children, I'm sure.

But, but yeah, they.

In China, it is very much a true fact that you physically own or you actually own digital games or digital property.

This includes like movies and, and whatnot.

But the.

I think, I think what's going to happen, I think the public will make a stand and I think, you know, I, I think Sony was kind of hoping that their user base would just kind of forget about this because, you know, 80, over 80% of us already buy games digitally.

I just showed you this disc right here.

This thing was a pain in the ass to play because I had to find it and then I had to put it in my PlayStation, God forbid.

And then I had to update the game through my network connection.

Anyway, stop the cap.

You haven't put, you haven't put that disc in the.

I haven't, I haven't played in the PlayStation for I haven't a year and a half.

Only thing I've put in that disc drive in my PS5 is Blade Runner, the actual Blu Ray Blade Runner.

To watch it every now and then I think I've got Troy, I've got some other movies in there that I Every time, from time to time, if I want to watch an old movie, I could throw it in there.

But guess what?

No drm.

I can play that movie because I bought that movie on a DVD disc at the store.

I paid for it.

It's mine.

I have a physical collection of DVDs and, and Blu Rays.

I got them stored in boxes now because my collection was getting way out of hand.

I think when you helped me revamp my office.

I think we had to put them in storage, but they're not really hard.

They're not easy to access, you know, access anymore.

But here's the thing.

I think, I think, I think Sony truly thought, because we're already basically buying all their games digital.

I think they just thought we'd be the goldfish, you know, just swim around and forget about it and move on.

To the next topic, but here's the thing.

When Sony erased those movies from Sony user accounts due to expiring licenses, I really think that got the ball rolling on the digital rights argument because I think this might have an impact on all digital content that's purchased in the future.

I mean, Sony even says publicly that buying games constitutes a license to access the content and is not ownership.

They literally stated in the terms of service.

And I really think the future of digital content is going to involve some form of ownership.

I think that we're going to go the way that China already is going.

I mean, how can you say you have a game collection on PlayStation when Sony can just make it inaccessible on a whim?

I mean this, this really has to change.

All you, all you have to do is you got to, you got to sign into the, you got to create a, an account on the, on the global blockchain and it has all your games on it, but you have to provide your.

You lost me at blockchain.

You have to provide all of your biometric stuff.

They're already, you know, you're already being monitored for everything.

You might as well have your entire games library also.

I guess on the blockchain.

I guess.

What's up?

Very vero.

Welcome to the future.

Isn't it, Isn't it exciting?

Yeah, the future's bright.

I got to wear shades.

Where's my sunglasses?

But here's the thing though.

I think competition is what's going to force this public outrage.

I mean, CD Projekt Red a GamesCon even announced that all Witcher 4 games will come in a physical disc in 2028.

Even though Sony won't support physical discs by that date.

May.

I think maybe even the studios are rebelling.

People are going to hold up their, their Witcher 4 gaming.

I mean, I'm just saying maybe it's,.

It's just funko pop.

I think.

Like, it's maybe, maybe, but it's just like collectibles.

What it is, it's, it's collectibles that people can like soy out over.

It'll.

It'll be awesome.

I, I tell you what, I'm happy for them.

I, I wish, I like, I, I wish nothing for them but to feel immense joy when they hold that witcher.

So you're ridiculing this in their hands?

No, no, I, no, I think if, if collectibles make people happy, like Funko Pops, that's, that's good.

Yeah.

I just think it's also like a relic of the past.

And like, I think who, who is it?

King.

King Camel Slap mentioned, like, who put CDs in their PC?

Like half of PCs when you buy.

Don't even have drives.

Disc drives.

I know, yeah.

This is like a relic of the past.

This has been like the.

I don't know, Steam's been around for like 20, 25 years.

I don't know, 15 years.

I don't know how long it's been.

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's.

It just kind of changed the game.

And if, you know, if Xbox wants to make physical discs, go for it.

I'm sure people like the whole thing with consoles that I see is first of all, I guess, like the ease of access.

Second, I guess is like the budget, even though I think that's kind of fleeting.

But I think the biggest thing is the nostalgia from it and the feeling of like having a new game in your hand, like a disc.

Like, I think that takes people back and that's probably like where most of the worth is or most of the value in like a CD these days is.

And so if people need like some kind of.

It's not even that they need it.

If it makes them feel happy when they hold a physical, I guess like token, that represents their digital license.

Right.

You know, I'm, I'm happy for them.

I.

But I think that's like all.

I think that's all it really does.

So again, maybe it's like some kind of fan service thing for the, For Xbox.

Well, I mean, it's definitely going to be like that for Witcher because we already know like how the Witcher game on the last Witcher game is like at least 100 gigabytes is massive.

Yeah, I think they said that you're.

Going to put in a disk and it's going to be like five hours of installing everything else.

I remember when Legend of Dragoon had like three disks and you had to swap them out when you played through the first one to get to finish playing the campaign.

It was crazy.

Here's the thing, though, I think because Xbox has made this switch, I think it's really going to make Sony rethink things.

But aside from the physical games, what do you.

I mean.

Okay, how many.

All right, hold on.

How many Steam games do you own on Steam in your library?

I'll check.

Probably like 600.

Okay, let's just say 600.

You don't have to give me an exact number, just a roundabout.

What happens if Steam.

One sec, I gotta give you the exact number.

616 What happens if one day Steam says, you know what, we're not renewing any of those licenses, you can't play those games anymore.

What do you do?

It's not really how it works.

Really what you do, what you do is you, you have to go through.

Steam to play them.

No, you don't.

No, you don't.

You just get a crack and then.

You get to go, hey, hey, we all, we aren't, we all aren't, aren't in the hacker society here.

We don't, we don't know.

It's not hacker society.

This is like lime wire to your stuff from 2005.

Okay, okay.

I'm just saying there are options on PC.

There's probably some options on like PlayStation 5 or Xbox.

I don't know how like locked down things are.

There are options.

The, the whole thing is though is that first of all, I think Steam like treats their customers with a lot more respect.

Oh, of course.

Than, I don't know, Sony or Microsoft.

I mean, especially Microsoft.

Microsoft's awful.

But like, I don't know, I think seems a little bit different.

I don't know, maybe there's been like a couple games that have been revoked or like removed from the Steam store.

But the thing is they, they would like issue full refunds for that for sure.

They're very good about that.

That's just how Steam works.

I mean that's.

That the reason why Steam is probably the most powerful online for PC games right now.

The whole thing with Steam is the, the idea is like you should, if you're going to be like, I don't know, digital marketplace for games when there's an alternative of, you know, free acquisitions of games sailing on the high seas and stuff like that, you have to make it more appealing and not just like, you know, user experience.

It has to like, you know, the sales, the ease of convenience, ease of use, centralized kind of social media with, with your friends list and everything.

There's like a, you know, the mod mod workshop there, there's a ton of things with Steam where the route that they took was okay.

There's always going to be this alternative of privacy.

How can we make it so people like, it's just easier and like people would just like rather go this route.

I just, I never see anything like that for Sony.

In fact, they, they kind of like the whole provoking movies that you've purchased thing.

It just feels like they're spitting in your face.

I think that was a wake up call.

I really do.

I think that was a Major blunder by Sony.

I think that opened people's eyes to say, hey, how do you, how do you express us to trust buying movies from you in the future when I have 10 movies, you just vanished out of my inventory.

How will we ever trust PlayStation ever again?

But okay, set aside the fact the physical games thing, because we all know eventually physical games are going to go away.

It's just a matter of time when the consoles that can play them die.

There won't be any reason to play them anymore.

I mean, unless you can revamp your.

And this is why I think the nostalgia will come back a bit for games, especially as digital only will be pretty much the wave of the future.

I don't think there's anything we can do to stop that.

But in the, in the, I was going to say in the podcast Live Stage Zombie brought up the problem with Sony or Xbox losing discs is that they have a monopoly on the market.

With computers you have options.

So you know, with, with console, like there's clearly like diverging kind of strategies there.

Again, it just comes down to what, what their strategy is.

I, I think there is something again just like nostalgic about discs.

Yeah.

But I don't know that to me that's like the only value I really see in it.

I, I, I don't necessarily think if they lose disc it would be like there's monopoly issues.

Yeah, I think it's more so.

I think it's more so just like, I mean, it's gonna be like, I don't know, what are some things that are old, like, like tape, like tapes or cassettes, floppy disks or stuff like that?

It's just, it's kind of like a CDs, a physical, I don't know, relic of the past.

It's just kind of technology when it comes to like ease of use.

Yeah.

And everything else.

Speed, all this other reliable.

Probably.

I've lived in both an analog and a digital world.

I've seen all the different.

And I've had to rebuy stuff on CDs that were once on tape because they sound better.

They're much more crystal clear.

They don't you remember.

I don't know if you know.

You don't remember.

But cassette tapes, man, you got so many uses out of them and they just would not function anymore.

The tape will get so worn out that there would be so much noise that you couldn't even hear the song anymore.

You just had to chuck the tape and throw it in the garbage because it was really.

And I'M sure there was.

There's companies out there that can replenish or restore some of those tapes.

Maybe.

But aside from the physical part, Cam, what do you think about the digital rights bill?

Do you think that'll come into fruition?

Do you think the future of content on digital platforms will.

There'll have to be some form of ownership where you can access that stuff at any time as long as you're on the platform, whether It's Steam or PlayStation or Xbox or whatever.

What do you think about the future?

Having some kind of law saying that you, I mean that's the basis for Stop Killing games is they say, listen, if the studio goes out of business and it's an online game, they need to have either allow us to use the code where we can make our own servers or have a single player version of the game where we can play it at any time because we bought it and we own it.

What do you think about the feature there?

Do you think that's where it's going to go?

I think if you want to truly own something, I don't think you, I don't think you like take Sony or Microsoft's or even like Valve's word for it, not Steam.

You can play games offline that, you know, there, there's a lot of support there to make it feel as DRM free as possible.

Right.

I really like even back in like the Xbox 360 days or PlayStation 3 days, I remember, like if we didn't have Internet, you know, there's just some games that you just can't launch or play.

Well, I mean we have to all assume that we have Internet.

Basic Internet.

Yeah.

But the thing is, is like if you want to truly own something, I don't think you, I don't think you like put that in their hands.

I think you have to take it into your own hands.

Whether it's through like a digital media library that like you self host.

Yeah.

Or you know, some, some people really like archival.

They'll, they'll have, you know, whole hard drives and, and you know, terabytes of stuff.

Right.

Like, I think that's really cool.

I think that's like a really healthy way for people to engage with technology.

There's like a whole open source community for it and everything.

Yeah.

And the thing with open source stuff is there's like a layer of trust to it.

Yeah.

And also like a layer of community to it that just doesn't exist even for something like Steam there you just, it's, it's not Yeah, I think, I think if you want to truly own something, you have to take that into your own hands and you have to kind of dedicate time to it and you have to take it upon yourself to be like, I want to own this thing.

If, if, you know, if shit ever hits the fan, are, are you gonna have like a, a Kindle or are you gonna have like printed versions of your books or stuff like that?

I mean that's extreme.

But I mean same thing for, same thing for like, I don't know, music.

Are, are you going to rely on Spotify for everything?

I want to, you know again, if shit hits the fan, are you going to like rely on Spotify for your entertainment and like your music and.

Yeah.

How important that is to someone to think about.

Yeah, it's something you have to take into your own hands and that's a part of owning it, is putting in that effort to.

So you're saying we need to basically have a home network where we can store all the files and play them, have a giant library of our own.

I don't think everyone needs to do that.

I think people can use their own judgment and budget and everything.

I think for people who are passionate about it especially, I think that's probably the best path to go.

There's a lot of other things like, I mean there's just a lot of really cool things that happen in like these open source communities.

Like you can essentially make your, your digital media library that's that like you self host, you can share it with people.

You can have them, you know, essentially like remote into your server.

You can give them credentials and go through tailscale.

So it's encrypted and protected.

There's like a lot of stuff that you can do with it, but that's, that's like something that you can't do with stuff like Steam.

Like you can't share a game with someone on Steam.

I mean, I guess you kind of can with like remote play or something like that.

Yeah.

But it's.

If you truly own that part of owning that is being able to freely share that.

Like I could send you a zip file for like, I don't know, 20 games right now and you'd be able to unzip that file and launch the executable and just be able to play it.

Sure.

I think, I think of course companies do not want that.

Like, you know, there's laws in place for, you know, replication and distribution that's unauthorized and stuff.

Distribution being the main thing there.

If you're buying something to replicate it, to distribute it and sell and compete with them, then that's the one thing.

But if you're buying it and creating your own copy for your own use, I really don't think there's anything wrong with that.

And the thing too is like, who, who, who is.

Who's like, really?

Like, like, come on.

It's, it's, it's the people and community versus companies and like their bottom line or something like that.

Yeah, I just, I could care less about that.

I, I would.

I think the impact of again, like being able to share something that you own and that you put effort into, like making it your own so you have the ability to do something like that.

It's just something you can't do with these other platforms.

And I think that's like, why it's important.

I think that's the direction people are going in.

I think you see people getting sick of DRM stuff.

I think you're seeing people get sick of, I don't know, whatever the hell Sony did with the movies, which I think is like, pretty egregious.

Yeah, I don't even know if there's been like, lawsuits against Sony.

There's hundreds of millions of dollars from governments and individuals suing Sony right now.

They got a ton of lawsuits over this, either through the lack of physical games or the fact, you know, the movie rights or whatever, just the fact that they have a monopoly.

I mean, think about it.

When it's all digital with Sony, they get basically a hundred percent of the profits.

They don't have to split it with a distributor or retailer or any wholesale, you know, good old games or whatever.

They don't have to share it with anybody.

They get all the profits.

And I think that's what a lot of these lawsuits are about, is the fact they're creating a monopoly.

So anyway, so bottom line, I kind of see where you're leaning.

Trust companies, you just can't trust these massive companies when it comes to like ownership or stuff like that.

They'll go through every loophole.

They'll go through everything that they can get away with to make sure that they will end up on top.

And yeah, that's just how it is.

Okay.

Yeah, I kind of see where you're leaning there.

So I read between the lines on that.

I want to catch up on comments before we go to our next story.

Deadpool and Merc says if you buy open box, only get good or excellent.

Never fair.

Yeah, and zipping is right.

GTA 6 has not been confirmed for PC at all.

Really.

And Zombie says a lot of people are selling them because of the whole lack of disc thing.

Also, yeah, they're Camel Slap.

King Camel Slap says they're going to get my money twice.

Okay, because you want to play it on PC, I get it.

And Zombie's like, nope.

Zipping's like, nah, I'm.

I'm not buying a console.

Total BS.

I don't even have a TV.

King Campbell slap says, I already have a PS5.

I can't wait that long for a PC.

Zipping says the next money I spend on a console will be a steam frame.

And Notorious one says, I'm glad I built a computer in 2025.

I saved a lot of money.

You and me both, man.

I bought a pre built and tweaked it a little bit and I can't even imagine what this PC would cost online right now.

I think it would be in excess of $5,000 because of all the, all the RAM and the card and everything that's in it.

King Camel Slap says if you have an older PC, it'll cost at least 1200 to upgrade to an AM5 given you run AMD or a DD plus DDR5 RAM is ridiculous because of the data center surge.

Yeah, we've talked about that.

I'd still rather dump that money into a PC upgrade.

And he also says, I mean, who puts CDs into their PC nowadays?

My entire library is allocated on Steam.

Yeah, you mentioned that, Cam bro, I want you to have my Steam library when I die.

I feel like people have been yelling about this for years.

Maybe I'm actually old.

This is from Zipping.

He says, digital content being not really yours has always been a topic.

Zipping Again says, well, like the PS5 has a disk drive.

If some third party publisher makes discs, could they not still work?

Are they just turning off the ability to make a game disc ever again?

I'm stoked for Witcher 3 remaster.

Been a long time since my last playthrough.

364.

King Camel slaps his PC is nice because you can emulate most other consoles as well.

And yeah, we didn't even talk about that.

That they're making PS5 emulators already where you can emulate Astrobot, which is an exclusive game for PS5.

You can now play through an emulator the full game.

And he says emulation has got huge advancements over the last few years.

King Camel Slap says the Vulcan engine kicks butt.

Zombie says the problem with Sony or Xbox losing Disc is that they have a monopoly on the market.

Yeah, we just talked about that.

And King Camel Slap says honestly it's the same with all physical media nowadays.

I used to have a cabinet at my childhood home filled to the brim with movies.

Yeah, me too.

Now everything is built around a network connection and subscription nightmare fuel when the story time tape gets worn out and made demon noises.

Yeah, I remember those demon noises.

Ziping.

I remember those man.

It sounded like a, like a high pitched scream.

It was scary as hell.

I remember the first time I heard that.

It about scared the hell out of me.

And then I realized the tape had just worn out.

Zombie says and then they can make exclusive game that are only on PlayStation plus or Game Pass and Force you to pay monthly as long as you want to play the game.

Could you imagine playing paying to play Destiny 3 for the next seven years?

They almost did that for D2.

It seems to work for some companies.

Blizzard does well with World of Warcraft still King Camelsop says yeah, Deadpool says He sold a $7,000 PC today.

Yeah, it's crazy man.

PC prices are out there.

Hello Guardians, this is Notorious One and you're listening to Guardian down round tape.

Well that leads into my next topic and be ready for the spinfoil theories on this one guys because boy where do I start on this Sony PlayStation State of Play.

It went live this morning.

I got up bright and early 9am Sat in front of my computer to watch Sony stream expecting some little bit of tease of a Bungie feature game but alas nothing and asked across and others in the Destiny community had been alluding to some special thing in this stream.

This stream after watching the American and Japanese versions Bungie was never in the conversation.

I mean I was really blown away.

So I did what about 3 to 4000 others did and they tune in to Aztecross's stream to see what he had to say for all the lying about this surprise announcement that we were supposed to get this morning and I tell you what I did.

I was very careful.

I watched his face and very very closely and as he was responding to chat I can just tell he was gloating about something and he was, he was actually doing something that I'd hardly ever see him do.

He sat there and thought very careful about choosing his words properly too.

I mean there were a lot of clues that I picked up on here first I think Astacross and maybe a very small number of other influencers in the Destiny sphere.

I think they signed an NDA.

I don't know if Bungie contacted him or Sony or both, but if they had not signed an NDA, I think Cross would have been a little more careless about what he said after this state of play.

There were also three other things that he blurted out.

First, he said something about doing our job, where we were spanning the emotes in PlayStation's live chat about Bring Back Destiny or Don't kill Destiny or Destiny 3, all these emotes.

And he was kind of congratulating everybody for doing their part, he says, because you never know who's watching.

Well, if you this Sony place, this Sony state of play was in Japanese time frame.

That's why it was so early this morning.

And he said another thing that I'll.

I kind of perked my ears up.

He says now we just gotta wait.

And then a little further in the stream he also slipped out that quote, we won't have to wait much longer and we'll see in about two to three weeks.

But the last thing that got my spidey senses going is something that Cross said.

He said we should think greedily about what we wanted in a Destiny game.

When he was asked what he wanted in a Destiny game, he said he wanted, quote, everything that leads me on to something that I've been talking about for years on this podcast.

And I promise you this is the last Destiny spinfoil hat theory I'm going to have ever a Destiny online game.

Now before you start laughing for this big huff of copium that I just inhaled, hear me out of here, okay?

Think about it.

If you were Sony and you had a player base that kept spamming in your chat.

Don't kill Destiny emotes or how could you bring back a Destiny game without a huge investment in one singular game like a Destiny 3?

I mean, I think Sony would have to invest 4 to 500 million in a Destiny 3.

And what if it flopped?

They would be the laughingstock of the development, you know, of the publishers out there.

I don't think Sony's in the mood for another one of these investments.

They won't.

They do not want another Concord.

They are not going to be burned.

Some are even speculating that just was they were just going to port over the original destiny so that PC and next gen consoles could play it at the 60 to 120 frames and maybe even at 4k instead of the 30 frames 1080 that you, you can play right now on the older consoles.

In the back of my mind I thought, you know what this is that was feasible.

But after what I heard at the end from Master Cross, saying everything in Destiny leads me to think that a Destiny Online world may be coming.

So here's what I did.

I put my business owner cap on and I tried to put together how I would do it if I were Sony.

And I, you know, and I didn't want to roll the dice on a singular game.

How could I do it without breaking the bank but also spreading out all the risk as well?

So if I were Sony, I would first.

Don't be a hater, guys.

I would dissolve the Marathon game.

That game has been doomed ever since I played that closed Alpha nearly a year ago now.

It just doesn't have the magic that Destiny always had.

It was obvious to me after playing just a few minutes in on that Alpha.

It was after, you know, when I played Destiny for 12 years now.

Dad, dad, dad, the Alpha sucked.

Don't take people's games away, okay?

Why would you wish that?

Why would you wish that?

Just hear me out.

Hear me out.

Give them the.

Give them the alternative that they choose.

963 People played it last week.

Concurrent.

963 People.

963.

963.

That's dead in the water.

You know what their peak was?

Trash game.

Their peak was so over.

Their peak, I think, was 3, 200.

That was their peak for the day.

What an embarrassment.

I mean, that.

I mean, whom.

Who's game?

Who are we taking this game?

What are we doing?

I'm just saying Marathon is not it.

It's not Bungie's future.

It isn't.

I'm sorry.

So if I was Sony, how much is clear?

All right, let's hear me out.

So if I was Sony and Marathon is done, what would you do with the nearly 400 employees that now comprise Bungie Studios?

Here's what I would do.

I would put 300 of them on the enormous task of porting over Destiny 1 and merging it with Destiny 2 into a Destiny online gaming world.

Destiny 1 really had a really decent new player experience already built into the game.

You would progress and open new worlds, and you'd learn about all the enemy types along the way.

It explained what role these new enemies played in the overall Destiny game.

And once you merge these two games, then you have the platform to begin inserting new content.

And I failed to mention this, but this is probably the very best time to ditch that tiger engine that has all the spaghetti code and is throwing out all of the bugs right now.

Because if, you know they had a Sunset content, right, because the engine couldn't handle it all.

So this would be the time to put everything on that new Unreal Engine, which has built in AI features by the way, to speed up those menial dev task.

Now, I don't know all the particulars, I've done a little research on it.

But it, it's supposed to add a lot of.

It's supposed to, you know, add a lot of complexity.

I mean, I know there's going to be a lot of complexity to porting and merging these two games together.

And if they use some of these systems in the new Unreal Engine, which like I said, it's not here yet, I think it would speed up the process of developing or doing that.

Now I think Sony could pull this off by maybe fall of 2027.

I mean, let's face it, GTA 6 is going to swallow up any AAA games in 2026.

So use this year to get the backbone of the platform in place.

I know I might be a little too optimistic on this part, but just play along with me here, okay?

During that space and time, the other 100 employees, which consists of some veteran Bungie devs like Allison Lures, who is by the way the new overall Bungie narrative lead now and did not get laid off from that Destiny crew, they can work on the new content, the new storylines and remember they had shattered cycle basically almost completed before Destiny got shut down for further development.

So maybe build on that.

So when the Destiny Online is finally announced in the summer of 2027 on Games Fest, like I said, take a ride with me here.

They'll have new content to sell in addition to the ported Destiny 1 game which will get the community excited.

They have a decade of weapons, a decade of armor and other assets for the game already created by the art department.

So the meet the hard task here would be how to reprogram these assets and transfer them onto this new engine or platform or both.

So if I were Sony, that's what I would do.

But here's the twist.

And I know this is going to get a lot of you guys, a lot of your guys, panties in a twist.

I can just tell you right now, I think, I think Destiny might go the way of World of Warcraft.

I think they might insert that subscription model.

It is what has kept World of Warcraft going for what, 23 years now?

And Destiny's only been out for what, 12 total.

You know, it's a subscription world.

I mean it fits right in with how we.

It's hard to do that.

Well, I'M just hard to do that.

I'm just saying World of Warcraft, RuneScape, stuff like that kind of does it because, like, it, it worked back then, and then they just kind of kept it rolling.

Yeah.

Destiny 2.

I remember you had to buy like the DLC every single time.

What is the biggest problem if they.

Get rid of the dlc?

No, no, no, no, no.

You're missing my point.

You're missing my point.

If a new player wants to try Destiny out, all they have to invest is one month.

Say it's 15 or 8 or 10 bucks a month for the, for the, for the subscription model.

Right.

I think it's like 14amonth for World of Warcraft, I think.

But that includes all the dlc.

It includes everything.

This is the biggest problem that Destiny has had in the past is you'll get a friend that decides to start playing the game and you want to run a raid with them.

And what's it say at the bottom when they join your fireteam?

This player does not own the dlc, so they can't play because they didn't buy the dlc.

This eliminates all that problem.

So you pay the subscription once a month.

It includes all the dlc.

It includes everything in the game.

You can jump in, you can play at your own pace, starting with Destiny 1 with the new player experience, and then move your way all the way up to Final Shape.

And then you can have the little side missions for the.

The seasonal stuff that they had or I don't know what you called it.

The episodes, I guess that came out after Final Shape.

I don't know.

I think this.$100 to buy a game all at once.

Price, structure.

I think it's outdated now.

I think the subscription model also will pay salaries and expenses of the Bungie studio.

And I know from what I've researched with Sony, they're tired of supporting whole companies.

And if this is in place where it can support the salaries and keep Bungie going.

And remember too, they've got 3.8, $3.6 billion invested into this IP.

They're not going to just throw that in the garbage.

I know it's a stretch, but like I said earlier, this is my last spinful idea I'm bringing all the way around from the past six years of podcasting about this Destiny game.

I think it's workable.

And let's face it, if Marathon is still here, the employees still got to get paid whether they sell more copies of Marathon or not.

All right, Cam, tear it apart.

I know you've never been a fan of the Destiny game so hard right now.

What do you think about, what do you think about this?

Is this feasible from your world?

I mean, you played World of Warcraft, you played the subscription model.

Do you think this would work?

I'll tell you.

Okay, go for it.

Yeah, I think, I think, I mean all the games that have like the subscription model have like, pretty robust free to play, like parts to it.

You can have that in this game.

You can have free to play.

Yeah, they would, you know, maybe you can't raid or you know, go to certain planets or stuff like that without your season pass or whatever they'll call it.

I think it's something that they can absolutely do.

It's something that they should probably do.

I think that's almost certainly like the best path forward for them.

Yeah, but the, the only place where I kind of pause on it is I, I, I don't know how many like console games have had like subscriptions to them.

Like that's, that's the only thing that I'm thinking of.

Well, keep in mind, I don't know.

How it would work.

Keep in mind Destiny Fantasy Star Online or something.

I know, I know, but 15 years ago.

But keep in mind, if they merge Destiny 1 into Destiny 2, which is already a cross play game, you could bring in the new systems, like the tier 5 gear and stuff and merge it right in with Destiny 1 with all the weapons from Destiny 1.

You know how many times I played Destiny 2 and I missed the old weapons of Destiny 1?

Like what was that, 900?

Or was it a thousand revolutions per minute auto rifle from, from the vault of Glass Raid?

It was void.

And I love that damn weapon.

It fired like a banshee and you would eat up ammo like crazy.

And it was hard to control.

But man, if you hit your target with it, it just obliterated it.

You combine that with devour and all these crazy builds now that they have with all these armor and, and fragments and, and, and aspects and stuff.

I do, you could go crazy on builds and everything here.

But I mean, like I said, I, I think it's, I think so.

Cam, I think Sony's backs against the wall here with, with Bungie.

I think they're, I think they're up against the wall and they're saying, listen, how can we salvage Bungie?

How can we salvage this?

We got $3 billion in this.

Let's just say they wrote off almost 800 million in losses against the purchase of Bungie.

But they still have about $3 million in value there.

How do we get the money back out of Bungie?

And I think this is a viable option.

I really do.

I think I can see this happening.

And when astacross started saying, think bigger.

Think about everything you've wanted in a Destiny game, I said, the dude's talking about Destiny Online or Destiny Infinity.

I always called it Destiny Online.

That was.

That was the name.

I gave it like four or five years ago when I thought of this idea.

Because the assets are already there, man.

They have all the assets from Destiny 1, and they're just sitting there rotting on the old consoles.

What if they brought them into a whole brand new platform where PC, the new gen consoles, and PS4 can all use them on a new engine?

On a new, brand new engine, like what Marathon's built on right now.

Or, you know, Marathon's easy to.

They're still in the Tiger engine, but it's a newer Tiger engine, but they put it on a whole new platform.

Just give it an overhaul.

And I know I can hear Kingsley's voice already saying, dude, do you know how much work that's going to take?

That's why I think they'll need a year to do it.

Dad, dad, do you really think Sony acquired Bungie and then they're like, yeah, don't make a Destiny 3.

Don't make a Destiny sequel.

You don't.

You guys don't need to worry about that.

They've probably been working on this for like 6 years now.

I don't think so.

I just.

You can say you don't think so.

I know a lot of people in the community will say, I don't think so.

I. I just don't see how that wouldn't be the case.

If that's okay.

If that is.

If that's the case.

You can't.

You can't keep milking Destiny 2 forever.

I know, and I understand you're not a Destiny player, so I know you may have limited knowledge in this area, but we have been following Destiny for a long time and they quit.

Why would they quit developing on Destiny 2 if they had no plan?

If they.

If they had plans to make a feature Destiny game, why wouldn't they support Destiny 2 anymore?

They're not even doing seasonal updates.

Nothing.

Totally walking away.

And it's.

It sounds like Marathon's not getting much love from them, so.

Oh, they're getting.

They're getting a season.

Season three, season three or season four coming up.

Good for those 900 players.

That's what I'm saying, But that's clearly not like the path that, like, Sony is.

Is gonna want.

Like, you know, they've been working on Destiny 3 for like six years, almost certainly.

Oh, no way, dude.

I don't think so.

Yeah.

You really think so?

It's been like six years.

They.

They fired Cam.

They fired all of the Destiny everyone who was.

Was developing all.

The Destiny 2 team.

Yes.

That's half the studio.

What's the Destiny 3 team?

There is no Destiny 3 team because the other.

The other half, the other 800 employees are all working for Marathon right now.

They're working on the Marathon game.

So where.

Where are these employees coming from?

Listen, you're thinking.

You're.

You gotta.

Listen, you gotta think bigger.

You gotta think bigger.

Just like.

Just like that one guy said, bigger.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

They.

They.

There's like.

There's like a different.

They have like some kind of shell company or something.

If.

If there's like internal audits and reports that are saying, yeah, they fired half their team.

They're on a skeleton crew right now, and all of them are working on Marathon, there's still something going on there.

They're.

They're not just going to abandon the only IP that is, like, promising for them.

That's where I agree with you.

Halo, a decade ago.

Yeah, but here's the thing.

Here's the thing, Cam.

Who.

Who.

What platform was Halos?

That's what.

That's what made Xbox.

Xbox is halo.

I think PlayStation wants Destiny to be their next Halo.

They want it to be their next generational game.

And this is the only way I can see them going forward with it.

If they.

Okay, let's just say I'm wrong and let's say they come out with a ported over Destiny 1 game.

We've already played Destiny 1.

Why would we want to play it again?

I played Destiny 1 for so many years before Destiny 2 came out.

I have so many alt accounts from playing Destiny 1, starting over the very beginning again, because I just love the new player experience, going through all the planets and stuff.

Why would I want to do that again unless it's integrated into a world where I can earn it all?

Just saying that makes more sense.

All right, I know.

I know you're not.

You're.

You're.

I know you know a lot about gaming, but I know Destiny is not one of them because you don't really follow the game much.

But you just.

You guys gotta.

You guys gotta stop Doom posting.

You guys gotta.

You guys gotta think bigger.

You guys Gotta.

You guys gotta believe in Bungie.

All right?

What happened to the belief in Bungie?

Guys?

Hey, King.

King Camel Slap agrees.

He says, Imagine D3 comes out and Datto does Destiny Returns.

What a rollercoaster of emotions.

I know.

He just.

And by the way, Datto does Destiny.

He just said that he's not doing anything more for Destiny now.

He's done.

He's moving on.

He's moving on to another game.

And there's countless.

He's like, he's like the last.

Say that.

He's like one of the last vestiges of Destiny content creators.

There's a few still left out there, and AST across is the biggest one.

I think he's got over a million followers or subscribers or whatever on YouTube.

So I know he's making that money on Twitch, but he doesn't always play Destiny.

He's playing all kinds of games.

He's.

He's.

He's expanded his environment, you know, his universe as well.

But it's so funny that we just saw astacross at GamesCon in Cologne, Germany, playing Arc Raiders and people were crapping all over him saying, why are you at gamescon playing arc Raiders?

I think what happened is he got invited to GamesCon and I think there was a meeting.

Somebody had a meeting with these Destiny creators.

I think so, man.

I think something is.

Something is afoot here, so.

And Zipping says, we're back.

We're done.

We're back.

Yeah.

Destiny 3 is so back.

Guys.

Put it, put it on.

Just start.

You guys just got to believe in Bungie.

Dude, I'm just.

I'm just telling you, they're the.

They're the best game development company in the.

In the history of the world.

Not saying that, but what I'm.

Guys, they made magic happen not once, but twice, right?

Maybe even three times.

There's been.

I'm sorry, there's been no competition even Bungie anymore.

There's been no competition for Destiny when it was out.

There's no other game like it.

And I really, I mean, I could see.

I'm going to open up the floodgates again.

I can really see Sony going with this online world and actually releasing series like television series on like HBO or whatever.

Just like they did with Fallout.

Even though Fallout.

Even though Bethesda had no game lined up.

Eternal Dark.

Fallout was.

Fallout was the biggest game based series success.

And Bethesda was holding their dick because they didn't have any new game for people to play.

What a waste of attention.

Okay.

Yeah.

Bethesda messed that up pretty bad.

And you know, they're owned by who?

They owned by Microsoft.

The thing is these things take like years to develop and stuff like that.

They do it.

They've.

They've been working on Skyrim for.

Not skyrim, Elder Scrolls 6 for like, yes, 15 years at this point or something.

It.

Listen, guys, I just want Destiny VR.

I just.

I just want to get put into the Destiny box for the rest of my life.

Could be I'm going to go space.

I'm going to go on a spaceship and go to go to Old Earth.

I've always said that they'll never get rid of Destiny, but as far as when Destiny comes back, I thought maybe, maybe they'd come back in 10 years and say, guess what's back?

Destiny's back.

You know, after everyone's kind of forgotten about the game.

But now after I hear about these streamers, especially as to cross, I'm telling you, the guy's gloating.

He's.

He knows something that we don't know.

And I tell you what, he.

In two to three weeks, if none of this comes to fruition, if, if nothing comes out of any of this and Astrocross just full of crap, then I'm going to move on.

That'll be my last.

That'll be my last spin foil theory about Destiny.

I told you, this is the last one.

This is my last ditch effort of projecting what I really think.

But what Sony should do here.

And you know, maybe someone's listening to this podcast right now that works for Bungie or knows someone who works for Sony or anything, and maybe they pass it along.

You never know, man.

You never know who's listening to your show.

But I'm just saying, I threw it out there.

It's out in the ether now.

And Kingsley can ridicule me next week.

When he's back, but yeah, Kingsley's gonna be all on board because what depends.

Is Kingsley coming back in one week or two weeks?

No, he.

He's.

Two weeks.

Things are going to change forever for you boys.

We don't know.

We may have big breaking news in two weeks.

Who knows?

I think he said two to three weeks.

You might just have like a Destiny slop tuber that is was, you know, has some ulterior motives.

Maybe it's maybe soon.

Anything to breathe some life into his channel.

You just never really know.

Astro.

What's his name?

Astrocyst.

Okay.

You just, you never know with these guys.

They, these, these streamers, these content creators, they can be pretty Sneaky and deceptive.

You never really know.

Never know.

All right, I want to read some comments here in the Discord.

Zombie says, I love the coat, but it's going to be a different people.

It's going to be a different game.

Vero says there was a rumor way back when that Destiny 3 was being worked on back during Witch Queen.

So there has to be something out there.

I think one of the old Bungie devs.

Chris.

Chris Barrett.

Christopher Barrett, I think said that he actually was working on a Destiny 3 game and then he got.

Then, you know, everybody got laid off.

So yeah, Project Payback.

Exactly.

King Camel Slap.

That was what it was named.

And then everybody was can.

I mean, if this is true, it will be a different game, but still Destiny though.

I mean, let's think about it.

Who is left at Bungie?

There's so many new faces, I think at Bungie because they hired so many new people.

They have one guy at Bungie, he's plugged into the mainframe.

It's Carl.

Carl's in the basement making Gambit again.

He's in the gamut.

He just like.

He just.

He just having thousands of agents recreate Destiny 3.

Nailed it.

All the old assets.

You nailed it.

There it is.

There it is.

Zipping says I hope Division 3 steamrolls and picks up the looter shooter.

FPF fans.

It's lacking the space wizard stuff, but I've been loving Division two.

Yeah.

I mean, I played a little bit of it and Kingsley certainly loves it.

And I think Zombies playing.

A lot of people in our community are playing it.

Yeah.

So yeah, everybody's kind of, you know, Allison Lures was the only one I didn't get.

I think one of the very few that didn't get laid off when.

When.

When the Destiny side of Bungie got fired.

So.

And she got promoted to the overall Bungie narrative lead, which I thought maybe she was going to make more things for Marathon, but man, Marathon just is.

It's just not doing well.

It's pretty bad when you're new game can't even keep up with your old game that is not being developed anymore.

Just saying.

Just saying.

Okay, I have one more thing.

I have one more thing to talk about here and then we'll move on to our topic of the week.

This is a game that I found out about.

A developer put out a video talking about all the changes that they made to it.

And this game is called Body Cam.

I'm going to show you some background footage for those of you who Are watching the podcast right now.

I'm going to show you some background footage of of this game and I'm going to have to turn the volume off, otherwise I'll get copyright struck.

But this game is from a little French indie team studio called Rassad Studio and it's a first person shooter.

I'm telling you it is so realistic that it develops the game for real life situations like what state you're in while you're playing it.

The gunfire is scary real, just like you're firing a real weapon.

Recoil, bullet spray, how your body reacts to bullets if you get shot, how you reload a weapon based on your heart rate and emotional state.

All have different, different animations on how you load and reload the gun.

It's kind of the opposite of being in control.

Because it's a game, you know that you are still safe within its walls.

I mean it's not real life.

But the developer, like I said, they just released a video explaining this and want to explain some of the features here.

Just really quick.

It is built on the Unreal Engine 5.

It's designed to simulate and look like a feel of a raw unedited military and police body camera footage.

The key characteristics and gameplay mechanics hyper realistic visual presentation.

The game mimics wearable action cams through dynamic fisheye lens distortion, heavy camera sway exposure, clipping lens dirt, chromatic aberration and pixelated faces to resemble redacted video feeds.

0Hud.

There are no traditional crosshairs, minimaps, health bars or any on screen ammo counters.

Players must physically check their magazines and rely strictly on visual and audio cues to track management and ammunition.

They have independent weapon aiming rather than locking the gun mate model to dead center on the display.

The firearms move independently with simulated physical inertia and procedurally generated recoil.

So there's a little bit of AI in this game.

Lethality and ballistics damage models are unforgiving.

A single well placed shot can eliminate an operator.

Weapons kick with authentic dispersion and dynamic reloading systems reflect physical fumbling or stress during intense combat.

In the audio simulation, gunshot suppression and spatial acoustics are built around localized pressure waves and deafening interior echoes rather than just clean standard video game sound effects.

They have tactical team modes called Body Bomb.

It's a search and destroy style objective mode.

They have Team Deathmatch and Wingman which is like a 2v2 game mode.

They have a free for all and casual modes.

They have a deathmatch and gun game and they have a co op zombies, a wave based PvE survival mode where teams navigate pitch black flashlight dependent zones while scavenging ammunition and fending off hordes.

Like I said, this is a small French indie studio and those are just showing you some video playback in the.

In the background here.

It is just crazy how.

How realistic this game is.

I would think I was talking to 30 and still gaming.

He was talking about this on his morning feed and I told him that this would be an excellent game for like police and army simulation games because it is so fricking realistic.

I wish I could turn the sound on, but when you shoot someone, you can hear them crying out for help or like an agonizing pain.

I mean, it is so realistic.

I mean, look at that.

There is no crosshairs.

I don't know.

I'm looking at it.

This really just seems like some people will just like not be able to play it.

That's what I'm thinking.

That get into it are going to.

Be like super hardcore players.

Well, I think it's more so like.

Like.

I mean, this kind of just looks like a.

Like a PTSD simulator.

It looks extraordinarily realistic.

It is very realistic.

It.

It, it.

Look, look, he's looking in the mirror.

You get.

It's like a real person, man.

It is crazy real, man.

It.

This is, I tell you, for army vets and people with ptsd.

I don't know if they'd be able to play this.

This is way too realistic.

This is pretty.

Yeah, it's.

That.

That would be like.

It looks very intense and raw.

I think maybe the zombies could be fun for that, but I don't know.

This seems like it.

Like it's a pretty intense game to play.

Yeah, it's been out since 2024 in early access.

Yeah, it has been.

It's made by two.

It's made by two brothers who were 17 and 20.

That's crazy, man.

How much should Sony spend on Bungie, by the way?

$3.6 Billion.

Yeah.

And.

Yeah, so this, this is.

This is what indie developers can do nowadays.

It's crazy, man.

And you know, you know they used AI in this game.

It's obvious.

The realism is.

Dad, you're gonna.

You're gonna be looking back and in 10 years you're gonna be like, okay, yeah, everything's made with AI now.

That's just how it is.

Zombie says look up.

It's the same thing.

It's why there's no CDs anymore, dad.

Yeah.

Look up six days in Felucia.

Talk about a p. Yeah.

I think I watched that movie.

There was a movie about that.

I think I saw it at the theater and it was disturbing, man.

I mean, the ragdoll physics and stuff in this thing where people get hurt.

I mean, dude, it's just.

I don't know if I'll be playing this, but I just.

This is just how far games have come, man.

I don't know.

I just.

It seems like the main complaint is that there's not enough people playing it and there's no like offline mode.

See, this is going to tie.

It's like the only thing to keep in mind.

But yeah, this is going to tie into my topic tonight because that's why I wanted to present this last because it's going to really tie into my topic.

My topic of the week this week.

Because I. Yeah, I just.

There's something about this game that really turns me off.

But we'll get into that.

We'll get into that later.

But yeah, it really turns off, but.

It's a game zombie to listen to how they scream.

I'm impressed by the tech.

I'm impressed.

Jerk in jitter.

I'm impressed by the tech because this looks a lot like arc raiders.

Arc raiders, a very realistic game, I think, but it's.

It's third person, it's over the shoulder, and you have HUDs, you have crosshairs, you have aim assist.

You have these little things that make it possible to even play this game on a controller.

I don't know how many people could play this on a controller, to be honest.

If there's no.

It's all.

You know, I think maybe they.

Maybe they went too far with this game.

I don't know.

I know.

You know, these are gun nuts.

You know, these people love their guns, man, because they.

They get down in the nitty gritty with guns on this.

This very, very.

If you know your guns, you'll be able to see exactly how much love they put into this game.

It seems like it has a level to pol of polish on it.

That is amazing.

It, like when you see that it's two brothers that have been building this crazy.

That's just a.

Like you can.

You can kind of like just see the passion that was put into it.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's.

It's very impressive.

Technically, I don't think it'd be a game that I would play, but I don't know, maybe.

Maybe it'd be worth a try.

I just.

I don't.

It's.

It's a little too intense.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, thanks Cam, for indulging me on the news.

It was a big news cycle this week.

I mean it's been over an hour just in news.

So let's move on to our topic of the week right after this.

Hello out there, this is Alli Kate and you're listening to the Guardian Down Roundtable.

All right, for our topic of the week this week.

As I continue to play my classic arcade games back here behind me, I've been thinking to myself and kind of reflecting on my past gaming hobby.

I mean, what I wanted to focus on tonight is why we game.

When I ask this question to our new guest, I usually get for Escape, that's usually the common answer I get.

But what does escape really mean?

I mean, Cam, let me ask you, why do you play video games?

I remember you have played on the Game Boy, the Wii, Xbox, 360, and now you play on PCs.

Do you play to Escape or is there some other reason you play?

Escape's probably a big part of it.

It's just like a distraction from like what's going on in life.

It's probably a big part of it because even going back to when I was a kid, what would I rather do, like do math homework or play Runescape for 10 hours straight?

But did you play?

I know which one I would rather play and it's to escape the like mundane reality.

Yeah.

Which is why I'm like so concerned about GTA 6 and why I think that game is going to eat people up and you're just never going to see them again.

But well, yeah, I don't know, I, I'd say, I'd say Escape's part of it nowadays.

I play to relax and I play and I really don't play games that much anymore at this point or.

And that's where I think, I think the biggest thing comes from or the biggest benefit from gaming right now is the community and playing with other people and using it as a reason to talk or, I don't know, spend time with somebody digitally.

Well, I mentioned in last week's topic that I was pumping these quarters into a wood box with a built in television.

It was all about getting those reps in, right?

Finding those patterns that would get you to that next level and basically memorizing them from sheer repetition.

I mean that's how we run strikes in Destiny.

We know where the enemies are coming from, we know what's going to happen in the next room.

But as I thought about it a little deeper, I think one reason I like the game is that I have a level of control while I'm in game.

You know, I know the parameters, I know the rules.

I understand usually what it takes to complete the main goal in the game.

And if I fail, no worries.

I just reload or respawn and start again.

But like I mentioned in last week's show, it wasn't really failure.

It was data how not to do it.

And that does translate into real life.

But what I failed to mention last week is that some things in real life, there are no resets, there's no do overs or respawns.

I mean, you can make a huge mistake at work.

You lose a client because of stupidity or apathy.

And it gets to you.

I mean, it does for me because I've made some stupid mistakes in my business and I've lost accounts and clients for it.

But the great thing about a video game is that you have all the control in playing it.

I mean, to me, control does resonate with me.

I collect a ton of resources in Destiny because resources are more, more scarce in real life.

I mean, if I need Glimmer, for instance, I'll just go to Cosmodrome and I'll do my Glimmer Farm.

I can't just walk down the street in my town or in my neighborhood and pick up money, pick, you know, pick up money off of everyone's lawns.

It just doesn't work that way.

So I love the fact that in the game, I can control my wealth, I can control what resources I have available to me.

Probably answers the question Kingsley's always asking me is why?

Why do you want to collect stuff all the time in the game?

Why do you always want to make sure you have all these enhancement cores and stuff?

Now with RPGs, I'm looking more to discover the story.

It's kind of like playing.

It's kind of like watching a movie.

I don't know if I told you this, but I am actually starting to play the 2018 version of God of War.

Starting from scratch because it's been so long since I played it.

I'm trying to go back into my back catalog.

And, you know, when it comes to shooters, guns and abilities are tools to be min max to give me the best chance of winning strategy games.

It's like high stakes chess, but with cooler explosions.

What it comes down to is it's just like hacking your flow state.

I think that has a lot to do with it.

It's.

It's knowing the directionality, it's knowing your end.

Like Goal.

It's having like challenge, but also like having comfort.

Yes.

Doing it both, it's really just like hacking your flow state.

I think so.

I think so.

And that's for a lot of people, that's a stress reliever.

You know, they get into that flow state, maybe there's something they can't do in real life because they're stressed to the guilt all the time.

I mean, action games, like when we play raids, I love the teamwork involved.

And you know, whether you're trying to complete a raid or you're taking a capture point on battlefield.

And speaking of control in games, sometimes I'll try to have that illusion of control in my work too.

I mean, sometimes I will gamify my work.

I mean, I'll keep a score on completed items for the day and when I do, I give myself some bonus points.

I mean, I know, I know it sounds hokey as hell, but try it.

It kind of works.

Especially when you're trying to improve every day in whatever you're trying to get better at or whatever your job is.

I'll give you an example.

I'll give you an example.

When I'm putting together and planning my service routes for the week, which I have all the control over, I'll put in place the areas that I need to take care of.

Those are the priority.

This part of town I need to take care of on Tuesday.

Right.

But sometimes I'll put in a couple more clients on the list kind of as a bonus, like if I'm running early for the day or my day changes up due to weather or whatever.

I can refer to these bonus jobs and maybe try to get those done as well.

And I think if you're a true gamer, there's lots of ways that you can gamify your life.

And sometimes it can be the difference in getting over that hump and accomplishing that task that you've been putting off.

And believe me, putting off things is me all the time.

I don't know, I'm not trying to sound like a self help book here, but there are lots of TED talks out there that talk just about this, about gaming gamifying your life.

I mean, look at, look at the corporations out there earning points, getting rewards.

I mean they're already doing it, they're already manipulating us through this gamifying of the systems out there to buy more or to get their credit card or whatever it may be.

But I think when I think about gamers, I think it works.

I think we're kind of a Different bunch.

And it's really funny when you realize someone in real life is a gamer.

You kind of both have that understanding of how we're really different and how we can gamify things to manipulate systems and get shit done.

I mean, I think we're truly a different bunch as gamers and I don't know, I think we have a big advantage over all those boring non gamers out there.

I mean, no hate there.

It's just the truth.

But what do you think, Cam?

Do you, do you gamify your life?

Do you try to gamify when you're trying to get stuff done?

I mean, your job is very complicated, complex.

You work from home, you do a lot of programming, you work, you're on calls with your, with your bosses all the time trying to plan stuff for the future.

I mean, do you use games?

Do you try to gamify your work?

Or is gaming that's what your escape is for?

That control factor?

You know the, you know the one song where it's like my life is like a video game.

I don't know that.

Trying hard to beat the stage or whatever it is.

That, that's, that's what I was thinking most that time.

I, I think gamifying things helps.

I think again, it's about kind of hitting that flow state and like being able to like sustain attention and like engage yourself.

Gamifying definitely helps.

I mean, but there's also like a degree where it's probably just like good for you to just do stuff too.

Like that you need to do without gamifying it or without like needing to gamify it.

Yeah.

So there's like, no, your life, your life can't always be a video game.

Sometimes, sometimes you just gotta, you just gotta try hard and do stuff.

But I'd say most of the time I get that if gamifying things helps, like, yeah, go for it.

Everybody's different.

Oh, you're talking about the gamer mind meld where you see him and you're like, oh, you're one of us.

You're one of us.

Oh, I understand your inner machinations because I knew that you played Call of Duty.

I found out.

I found out I had a client.

This couple was.

They were in their 60s, they were much older than me.

And I found out that they love to play on PlayStation and trying to remember the game they told me they played, but it was a really hard game.

It was a dungeon crawler type game on, on play on PlayStation.

I, it's.

I can't.

It's eluding my mind now, but I. I totally had a different planet.

I totally.

No, no, no.

Like dark.

Like really a dark game.

Oh, Path of Exile, Diablo.

I don't know.

You're saying Dungeon Crawler.

No, it was a.

It was.

I think it was a single player game, but it was one of those games that was like a, like a souls.

Like, it was very difficult.

Dad, dad, Zombie.

Zombie, you.

And you got to acknowledge it in the Podcast Live stage.

Is that much older?

Yes, that is much older.

Because at the time I was much younger when I talked to him.

And I remember, I totally.

I tell you what, Zombie, I totally viewed them differently once they told me that they were gamers.

It's just, it's an understanding.

We.

We.

Someone sees me wearing a Destiny T shirt or my podcast T shirt out, and they give me that look like, yeah, man, I know where you're coming from.

I'm telling you, we're a different.

We're a different bunch out there, man.

And I just think.

I don't know.

But my point in the topic was the reason I think a lot of us love to escape, which is the main answer I get when I ask my.

Our new guests that.

I think it's the fact that we have a level of control and like you said, we're merging that flow state, right?

We have control over the, over what happens in the game.

I mean, when we, when we die or when we lose in a crucible match or whatever, who cares?

We're gonna play another one right after this, you know, and we still get rewards at the end of the game, you know, who cares if we lost the game?

But if that was real life, dude, it would suck.

It would suck.

Because in real life there's.

There is no next game.

But I know it's really kind of hokey topic tonight, but it's just I'm sitting there playing these old games like Galaga, and my God, I realized how much of a shooter kid I was.

All the.

I'm going back in all these games that they have on this console and all the games I remember are all shooter games.

I named a punch out was one that was not a shooter game, but a majority, I would say 80% of all the games I ever played in the, in the, in the, in the arcades back in the 80s and 90s, they were all shooters.

That's why I flocked to shooter games.

That's why I've always liked those kinds of games.

But anyway, those old games, I mean, there was no save point There was no pause button.

There was no way you could say, hold on a sec, I need to think about this before.

And my God, the bullets would be coming from you from all different directions.

And unless you actually memorize where to move your ship, you just wouldn't last.

Man.

The games were made for you to just keep pumping quarters in them anyway.

Dad, dad, it's time to make a tiny pivot here.

What's that pivot for?

My topic.

For my topic of the week.

Yeah, I want to talk about this.

Yeah, I want to talk about this.

Okay.

For Grand Theft Auto and I don't know how much you've watched of like people doing like role playing servers like that.

No, I haven't watched a lot of that.

You're talking about GTA 5.

GTA 5 online.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, I've seen people ruin their marriages.

I've seen people like, like, you know, fall into like these like weird E relationships.

I've seen people that will like clock out from like some job that they hate.

Yeah.

To get on, to get on like a stream for GTA role play.

Yeah.

So they can work for like the next five hours in a fast food shop in GTA in these role playing servers.

I, that's, that's where I'm like really concerned about escapism because you, you.

And the thing too is they're, they're kind of, they're kind of tricky with how they do this.

When you, when you look in the, the Grand Theft Auto extended look.

So I'm looking on YouTube right now.

Yeah, I can give you the, the time, the time thing for it.

I'll find it here in a second.

There, there's an ad for like an unhappy brain and what is it?

Was it.

Yeah, yeah, I remember that.

Are you constantly searching for a way out?

Yeah, I remember that.

Luckily for you, those days are over.

And then the very end of it.

What does it say?

It's just like a.

Let me see.

Look at this transcript here.

I know, I know that.

I know that part that you're talking about.

The very end of it where it's like might not feel it, might not feel like it, but these are your glory days, the salad years.

You know, nothing is going to beat who you are now.

You can't see all the stuff that's looming on the horizon.

Enjoy this, dude.

If this right now was all that there is all the time, it would be perfect.

What's the time on that?

What's the timestamp on it?

That's the very end of The.

It's the timestamp 25:39 for when that starts.

25:30.

And I'll play it and it ends.

It ends the entire thing.

And to me, that's like, oh, they.

I mean, there's like a reason why they're like, why they've taken so much time on this.

Why are they put in a lot of work into making this.

You know, why there's so many little things that you can do.

You have to fill up your car with gas now.

Yeah, there's so many, like, things that you can do in here that I just see people just like, losing their entire lives in this game.

Like, just seriously, like, going to work, doing.

Doing whatever they have to do so they can get back home and live their second life in gta.

When again, this isn't like.

This is like literally like a life simulator except what does it appeal to?

It appeals to all the, like, fantasies, like power fantasy fantasies, sexual fantasies, you know, cars, you know, guns, violence, crime fantasies, all these kind of things.

Right?

And on top of that, you think about all the media, like, all the entertainment, all the movies and stuff.

You can pretty much place like, you know, most like crime movies, most like gangster movies, most action movies.

All of this can fit in this, like, one world.

And I think there's like, something that is very, like, I. I think this is probably gonna be like one of the most popular games of all time.

Just like, you know, I just don't even.

The.

The.

The video.

The extended look trailer has 21 million views.

It's crazy.

Came out, what, like six days ago or something like that?

It has 1.5 million likes right now.

You know, let's just say, like, I don't know, 5 million of those are botted.

That's still an insane turnout for game trailer.

And then on top of that, was on Netflix too.

The game trailer.

Yeah, there.

There's like, things that like, again, I've seen people like, ruin their marriages in real time.

Like, like streamers who are like variety streamers.

And you know, let's just say Moonmoon is a.

Is an example where he sunk like six months of his life like every single day going into this world and living like a second life.

And there.

And the thing is, like, everybody else there was doing the same exact thing.

This was explored with a game called like, Second Life way back in the day.

And, you know, it really appeals to some people, but, you know, that game was like, kind of like, I don't know, a little bit more plain, a little bit more Lame GTA is like, you can literally like live out like any kind of fantasy you're looking for pretty much in this.

And there's so much to keep you engaged, so much to keep you like plugged in.

Zit Ping, who's based, by the way.

Jess said VR chat is Second Life 2.0.

It absolutely is.

You see people, like, people are living entirely different lives in these virtual environments.

And what I was thinking, I told you this.

Imagine if there's some kind of way for them for, you know, Rockstar or something else to like roll out some kind of cryptocurrency that's like linked to the game itself.

And like imagine, imagine like you're, you're, you get like make money from playing the game or from like, you know, in these role playing servers which cost a ton of money.

And you know, I think people like, there's like a ton of funding that goes into these role playing servers.

Imagine like you, you actually get like some token or something for like doing your job or I don't know, something like that consistently.

I can really just like see this like eating people up like in a really, really bad way.

That it's just not, not healthy.

It's dystopian a little bit.

Like, it, it, it like this is like a game where like you could put someone in a pod and they'd probably be fine.

What, what was it like?

The, there's like all, all these thought experiments about like the pleasure machine and, and stuff like this like where you put a thing on your head and like, oh, you can press a button, you get a huge thing of dopamine.

And I can't remember the thought experiment.

It's been a few years since philosophy classes, but the, I'm just like wondering like how that kind of stuff will work out because we haven't really seen a game yet, like really introduce something like cryptocurrency when there's like a whole layer of like cryptocurrency specifically tailored for gaming environments and earning while you play, that's like a whole subset of the environment there.

I just think it'd be really interesting to see something like that happen because at that point, if people can earn enough to get food, like playing a game that they love because they're being a cop or a fast food worker or an auto repair person or the, you know, interior designer who, who really knows people, people can like really do like, you know, anything in a lot of these servers.

It.

I don't know.

I, I just, I, I really, I really Think the game, it looks good.

Yeah.

But I think it's.

I think it's like we're reaching the point where it's like, what's it called?

The Uncanny Valley.

Like there, there's gonna be a point where like people are.

It like in uncanny Valley isn't the right term, but where people are like, I would rather be in this world more than in my actual life.

Like, there's just no reason why they want.

Especially if there's like community layered into it.

I mean that's.

Especially if they can like live off of it.

Yeah.

I mean there's like Ready Player One, the main character's buddy made tons of money because he made stuff.

He made vehicles for people and modded them out.

In the online world of Ready Player One, he would get tons of online currency and would be able to do anything in game that he wanted to.

I think this goes back cam to that level of control, man.

People know that they can't get hurt real, you know, in real life, in this, you know, in this game, they can't get hurt.

They can, they can be whatever they want to be because there's no repercussions if they do something wrong.

And I agree, man.

I mean, who knows how that translates?

And I know there's probably people out there who will definitely.

This will be a black hole game for them.

No doubt.

Okay, let's say all the trillionaires and billionaires that talk about universal basic income because of AI and all this kind of stuff.

Imagine like you don't even have to worry about that kind of stuff like, like, you know, making enough money to live or something like that.

At what point would you just see like there's going to be a point where like 10% of the, like 5%, 10% of the population, you know, especially with the data centers.

What are those data centers for?

Probably like, you know, do something like hosting massive service servers and services and stuff like that.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I just think like in a world like that again, it feels very dystopian.

Like the amount of little things that they've put in.

Especially when I see how this gets extrapolated to these role playing servers where they took it to the next level in these role playing servers and extended the life of Grand Theft Auto makes.

A million a week, five, six million dollars a week in extra transactions.

That's, that's like, that's absolutely crazy.

And they learned as many lessons as they could with, with yeah.

Stuff like no pixel.

Think of all the.

Think of all the player data they have stored over those, what, 10 years now since they made this, 12 years since they made the last game.

12 Years of player data put in this game.

And I'm not, I'm not poo poo in this game because I pre ordered it.

I went in, pre ordered it on my PS5 Pro.

I mean I already got the Pro.

It makes no sense not to pre order.

I want to, I want to see what this, I want to see what this game can do.

I really, honestly, I'm Gen X, man.

I've, I've been in both worlds and I don't think, I'm not really worried about getting sunk into these worlds.

I think what'd be cool though, I think this is going to start a career of a lot of streamers out there that have their own niche in the game.

You know, you're going to have people that stream only their auto repair shop and they're going to repair and make all these cool cars for people.

I think it, I don't think you understand like how common this has been for like years now.

It's already here.

There's like a massive community I barely played.

It's like literally the biggest thing on Twitch for like a year straight.

Yeah.

Because people were role playing.

And even if you're doing something kind of menial in these servers, like being a fast food worker, there's always the nightlife when you get off work and then you're interacting with people.

Maybe you're causing some mischief, maybe you're getting up to like little petty schemes and stuff like that.

Yeah.

Maybe you're like trying to, you know, scrape things together so you can afford a car.

All these struggles in, in real life are like you mentioned, like gamified.

Except to an extreme.

Yeah.

Where not only is the time horizon just shortened, but also there's like no real risk to it.

Well, they, now they did say that if you didn't get enough sleep that your, your senses would dull.

Just like if you didn't get sleep in real life.

No, no, that's not a risk.

That's what I'm talking about.

That's what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about like you.

There's a reason why people don't commit crimes in real life and there's a reason why.

Because they can play it out Grand Theft Auto, even when they're, you know, 10 years old or something.

Right.

They're getting in a car, they're driving over people.

I did.

They're, they're honking their horn at the prostitute and I did.

Taking them to pound town.

You know, there's a lot of things that people will do in these games that they would never dream of doing in real life.

That's where the escapism comes in.

Yeah.

And to some degree, repercussions.

But it's also.

It goes beyond escapism.

It's.

It's literally like fantasies.

It's like power fantasies.

Yeah.

It's like things that, like, appeal the most, like these, like, carnal desires that people have that every single person has.

Right.

I'm amazed how.

How much this looks like Florida.

They really did the best.

I mean, it's.

It's model.

It's.

I mean, even Vice City looked a lot like Florida because it was also.

I think they based it on Miami.

I think Vice City.

Well.

Well, yeah.

GTA 6 is.

Is Miami.

And they go through and they like.

They're very.

They really try to keep it as true, but they.

As possible that they did for.

They even have the hick areas.

They even have northern Florida areas where it's like the by, you know, where.

It's like backcountry South Florida.

They have the Everglades.

Yeah, yeah.

You got the swamps down there.

But even in central Florida, you have this city life that they show here.

It looks very much like Orlando does.

A lot of it does.

I mean, it's just.

It's crazy.

Again, they've been working on this for a really long time.

Yeah, they have.

They're a massive team.

So many hours have gone into this.

$2 Billion in promotion.

Addictive.

Yeah.

As most aging invested in a game, there.

There's a reason for that.

Yeah.

Make it back again and again again.

Let's just say, you know, universal basic income somehow happens.

How many people are just gonna be like, okay, well, I don't have a reason to leave the house anymore.

I'm just gonna do this.

I don't wanna get political, but let's.

Let's hope we don't get.

It's not.

It's not about politics.

It's about just like, the human condition.

Yeah.

I. I just.

I. I worry for how this game will eat people up because it directly plays on these, like, escapism, power fantasies.

All this kind of stuff.

Yeah.

All the kind of stuff that makes, like, normal life, like, kind of like, suck and boring and mundane and all this kind of stuff see exact opposite in this world.

So I don't know.

I have some serious concerns with that.

I got a counterpoint.

Yeah.

I got a counterpoint from you.

Deadpool.

And Merc says I game because it helps me cope with ptsd.

I mean, he's an ex marine.

Gaming gives me an opportunity to talk with people, build friendships, and take my mind off things when life becomes overwhelming.

I wouldn't necessarily describe it as escaping from reality.

For me, it's more about finding connection and bonding with people who may understand or be dealing with some of the same things I'm dealing with in life.

It gives me a sense of community.

It reminds me that I'm not alone.

Looking through other comments here, base window just to.

Just to speak to the Deadpool comment.

Yeah, that's like that.

That's.

That's like where like gaming is like a boon.

It's.

It's like truly like.

That's like someone gaming for like the right reasons.

And everyone can take things a little too far.

But when it hits so many different things, like in terms of like, needs and like, I don't know that that's like again, that Dead Deadpool's gaming.

Gaming for the right reasons.

That.

That's like that.

That's like the.

The heart of a gamer, you know, that's the.

That's the mind meld you're talking about.

I don't know.

Wild dad, here's the.

Here's the thing.

And, and Basswindo makes a good point.

He says, I mean, video game addiction is real.

There is a possibility GTA 6 can make it worse for some folks.

I'll just speak to that base window because I did have video game addiction.

I was so down the rabbit hole with Call of Duty early in my marriage, it almost ended it.

It did.

We had to have a Come to Jesus meeting and tears were shed.

And it was really scary time in my life when I realized, I think someone had to slap me to remind me that I had a real life to live, you know, that it wasn't always about meeting your buds and playing Call of Duty every.

Every night.

You know, and that was my.

And it kind of relates to what Deadpool's saying.

It was my socializing with.

With my online friends.

Some of these friends I still know today, I still talk to on occasion.

But yeah, I understand video game addiction, dad.

It's there.

You had a family.

Yeah.

You're not thinking I have a family.

I didn't have a family.

I have a family.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's not the point.

You're not thinking of.

Was it like the.

Yeah, I understand.

Massive amount of people nowadays and like the younger generations.

Yeah.

That don't have anything.

They can't talk to a girl or a boy.

Like, they have nothing going for them.

They, like, hate their life.

That's that, that's like the stuff that I'm, like, really worried about.

These people are just gonna opt out.

Yeah.

Like, they're just gonna go.

They're just gonna opt out and tap in.

Yeah.

And again, you had things that called you back to reality.

They may not.

You can't, you can't escape, you know, having, having family and having kids that you have to take care of that live in the same house as you and everything.

I get that.

So it's.

And again, you know, moonshine says this at the, at the most recent comment.

You know, sometimes you trade one addiction for another one and it's a lesser addiction and you're still like, again, anything that makes your life, like, meaningfully better, I say, you know, go for it.

Within reason.

Yeah.

The, the, the thing that I get worried about with this is where it doesn't, like, again, you're just going to prefer this life.

I get that.

Instead of this life.

And, yeah, I don't know.

That's something that I think is unique to Grand Theft Auto.

And again, this is going to be probably like one of the biggest games of all time in, like, history.

They'll make that 2 billion up and probably, I don't know, probably in initial game sales, I'll probably make that money back.

I wouldn't doubt it.

I. Yeah, I just, I don't know.

And this is where escapism the online.

Is not even available yet.

This just, this is just the base game.

This is just the, the, the, the one player or I think.

I don't know if there's co op in this or not, but it's just the one player campaigns here.

All the different stories I've been playing, I've been playing Cyberpunk 2077 and it's very much like this game, but it just doesn't hold me.

You know, I do the little tasks that they tell me to do.

I move on.

And I'm trying to get to the point where I meet Keanu Reeves.

I haven't gotten to that part yet, but I'm still doing menial little things till I get to that part.

But Keanu.

Yeah, I mean, it's going to be cool.

I mean, to see Keanu Reeves, I want to see what speaking lines he has in it.

How does he tie in with this game?

You know, where's he fit in and all this.

But I don't know, man.

I think I'm going to play it, I'm going to enjoy it, and maybe even when the online vert, you know, the online community starts on it.

I may have a little niche or something that I do.

Maybe I'll be an exterminator, you know, in the game life.

I'll offer exterminating services to a clientele.

I mean, I don't know if I want to do that because I do that in real life and I don't want to escape to that.

Opt out of reality.

Yeah, exactly.

So.

But I know I, No, I totally get it, man.

I totally get it.

And it's going to be an option though.

Like, that's the thing.

That's true.

I mean, if you can do literally anything on the online version, then I could see people, you know, I could see people doing that.

Especially today, man.

I mean, look at, I really feel for Gen Z out there because they went to college, they were told to go to college.

You get a job.

Well, they're coming out of college and where's the job?

It's getting taken up by AI.

AI is taking your entry level job.

Now I can see why people would just be distraught and hopefully I'm going to address some of these topics in a future podcast that we're thinking about coming out with here soon.

But I, I agree, man, I.

Like I said, I've.

I.

Here's the thing about life, man.

I.

And I'm not speaking from the hill.

I've just lived it, man.

I've lived 58 years on this world, on this earth.

And the thing I realized when I had game addiction is that with everything in life, it's all about balance.

We all have our roles, we have to play throughout the day.

It's all about how much we allot to each of these roles.

And the role of me sitting down and playing video games is one of those roles.

And I allot a certain amount of time to it.

I almost like I schedule it in.

But what's ironic is I haven't played any video games this week.

I just haven't felt it.

I just don't want to.

Just didn't feel like playing video games.

So I didn't play for the majority of this week.

But yeah, I really think that's the key, man.

And a lot of people, like I said, don't, don't realize that until they've lived a little bit of life and until they do and they make those mistakes, it's going to be hard for me to tell them that it's all about balance and then not really understand what that means.

But anyway, it was a good topic.

I'm glad you tied it in because it very much ties in with being in control.

And that's why we like to game is because we can play a game.

We're in control.

We can do whatever we want to do.

I mean, you can play GTA 6 here, do anything you want, knowing there's no repercussions and have that level of control that maybe you don't have in real life.

And I can totally see why you think a lot of young people are going to fall down this black hole.

I can see it too.

And I think I'll be.

Just to be honest, I think that's with any game cam.

But this game, the thing about this game is different than a lot of games.

It's uniquely different.

It's uniquely different because it imitates real life.

Yeah, that's the thing.

Yeah, that's where it is a little scary.

So good topic, good topic.

Tonight, let's do this.

Let's catch up and talk about what we've been doing, what we've been seeing, what we've been watching, all that good stuff.

We'll do that right after this.

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Later, Guardians.

All right, this is the part of our show where we catch up and talk about what we've been doing in our real lives or what we've been gaming, what we've been watching, all that stuff.

Cam, I'll start with you, man.

Since you've been on our show last, what have you been doing, man?

I mean, you mentioned you haven't been playing a lot of games.

So what, what are you, what have you been doing, man?

I Kind of know what you've been doing, but tell everybody else.

What have you been up to, man?

What's, what's going on in your life?

Do you, you, you get a little glimpse?

I get a glimpse.

I do even understand the depth.

Well, enlighten us.

I, okay.

I've been, I started going back to an MMA gym, so I've been doing Muay Thai and Jiu Jitsu again.

I did sparring today before we had our, before we got on.

That's, that's like, that's the flow state right there.

That's, that's fun stuff.

Plus it's good for your health.

You're, you're, you're moving, man.

You're not sitting on the screen all day.

Yeah, even, even getting hit in the head a little bit, like, softly wakes up.

Probably not the best for your brain.

No.

But I agree.

Nothing makes you feel like more alive.

So I'm, I'm good with that.

And yeah, it, it is, it is a good workout.

The other stuff that I've been doing is, you know, it.

I think it's, I think it's above your pay grade.

I've been, I've been building little copper tensor devices and welding and stuff.

Okay.

These are, these are like little tensor rings and everything.

Wow, that's cool.

Got a big one right here.

What do you use those for?

Like, like, like, you like, squeeze them.

It's like a tension thing or.

No, it's just an arm.

I won't get into it.

Okay.

All right.

I, I, I won't get into it.

You can use them for a lot of different things.

Most of it is, you know, it's, you're, you can do magic with them.

Okay.

You can, you can, you can use this to amplify your intent.

A bunch of other stuff.

Right?

Okay.

You don't have to elaborate.

Oh, man.

What, what else have I been doing?

I've been collecting.

I've been collecting little rocks and stones.

I got some larimar right there.

Okay.

Wow.

I got some Kundalini Jasper.

Wow.

That's a nice looking stone right there.

That's cool.

Is this Agni Manatite?

That's crazy.

It came from a meteor that landed off the coast of Java, of the Java Islands.

And look at this.

I don't know if I can do it.

Was it supposed to shine up?

Oh, yeah, you can.

No, it lights up.

No, you see how it's see through?

It's like glass.

Oh.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

But it looks like a rock.

That is pretty cool.

That's Called a text height.

That's pretty cool stuff.

Okay, all right.

That's cool.

I didn't know that.

Otherwise, working yard work, maintaining a daily routine for health and wellness.

It's good.

Explain.

Explain.

Going on dates with my wife.

Going on.

Doing a bunch of stuff with Elliot.

I think we're.

I think we're watching Elliot tomorrow so you guys can go out and do something.

I think.

Well, maybe we'll.

We'll figure that out.

Okay.

I think mom talked already.

Yeah.

Explain what.

Explain to people what your job entails Because I'm still clueless.

It.

I mean, And do you.

Do you really want to hear about how I use SQL databases and I create queries?

Okay, you lost me.

In various different ways to ingest information.

There's people here that probably know exactly other things.

On top of that, I also model this data.

Wow.

I get to create special dashboards that illustrate and demonstrate the impact.

But the question.

Various metrics and measurements and.

Wow.

But the question is, do you love doing it?

I mean, it's.

It's.

It's good enough right now.

It's a job.

What would I love to do?

What would I.

What would I love to do?

Yeah, you know, if I.

If I can make a million dollars making shitty little copper twist devices, that'd be super cool.

No, I. I don't know.

Oh, you don't have to answer.

There's.

There's.

There's not really.

I don't know.

There.

There's like, it, It's.

It's a good job.

I have good people around me.

I get to work from home, which gives me a lot of flexibility in my routine.

Yeah, there's.

There's some good stuff to it.

Now, would I say this is my dream job?

Would I say, man, every single day that goes by, I just fall in love with my job a little bit more?

No, not really.

But, you know, you don't really need that.

I mean, how many people.

How many people, like, get that?

So I'm just very fortunate and very grateful that I have a job right now.

Yeah, true.

Very true.

Moonshine has.

Says he pulls data all the time.

He has to pull data all the time.

He's a warehouse.

He knows what's up.

Yep.

Yeah, it's thrilling to talk about.

Okay.

All right.

Anyway, you probably talked about it on your first initial interview with us, but I was.

Listen, guys, guys, if I.

If I could be.

If I could make my living just being.

Just being a real life wizard, that.

That's what I would do.

That's.

That's my dream job.

As long as it's.

As long as it's a warlock, you're.

I'm there.

Okay, dad, you don't know.

You don't know about, you know, esotericism.

No.

You don't really know how deep this goes.

You say you want to be a warlock.

I'm not sure.

I'm not sure you're about that life.

Okay.

Okay, so let's take a shot.

At least in destiny I am.

That's all that matters.

Yeah, you are a wizard.

Harry says sin.

Yeah, I am a wizard.

But you know, I'm.

Otherwise it's just like living the life.

Meditation.

Good.

Trying to, trying to achieve out of body experiences and lucid dreaming.

Now that's pretty cool.

That's taking your consciousness up another level.

What to me?

I just.

I just like to sleep.

Period.

No, I mean I. I've actually been doing breathing exercises lately to get my blood pressure down because sometimes I get frustrated about something and I'll just sit there and you know, in, in through the mouth or in through the nose for five seconds and out, out for four, you know, or six or eight or whatever the diff.

Depends how I feel at the time.

But breathing exercises, man, I'm telling you.

You know how you, you'll catch yourself just sitting there, shallow breathing all day and you'll be like, man, why am I not taking like a full breath?

And it's amazing how shallow we breathe when we're not thinking about it, you know, I think breathing, just breathing like fully breathing is.

I don't know, man.

I. I think there's something to it, you know, nitric oxide and all that stuff.

So.

All right.

It's not even that deep.

The breathing is literally like one of the only ways that you can affect.

Your central nervous system.

Yeah.

That you can directly control.

It's.

I mean you can keep on saying all these things.

All comes down to, is that you can control your, your mind with breath work.

That's all really.

Mind and body with breath work.

It's really important.

I think breath work is very important.

Okay.

The number here's a public service announcement.

Okay.

If you catch yourself breathing shallowly throughout the day.

Yes.

All you have to do, only thing you have to do to start is just become conscious of breathing and just like try to notice it a little bit more.

You're gonna forget about it.

Then when you remember again.

Oh, just feel the breath coming in and going out and just stick on that.

That's all you really gotta great thing.

About it is you can do it anywhere.

I do it in my truck when I'm driving.

I mean, you can do it anywhere.

It's not distracting.

Anyway.

We don't have to get into too much esoteric stuff.

You want to.

You want.

You want to.

You don't even know what that word means.

You want to know a really cool breathing exercise?

What's that?

This is for.

This for.

You know, I won't get into Ida and Pingala.

Okay.

I won't get into the different channels of your.

Any different energy channels of your body.

But one thing that's really cool.

You close your nostril, breathe in, and then you switch.

Breathe out.

Yep.

Breathe in again.

Then you switch.

Breathe out.

Yep.

Breathe in.

It's awesome.

That's how you can get out of a panic attack.

Creating.

Well, it's about.

It's about creating harmony between your left and right hemispheres.

Now you lost me as your brain, and it's not even about that.

You know, that your brain.

That your nose and your nostrils will take in air different points throughout the day.

Yeah.

Through the different nostril.

That's just how it works because it has to find balance.

Always turning, balancing.

That makes sense.

Listen, you can find whatever works best for you.

I really like that breathing exercise.

I do it all the time when I'm driving and stuff.

All right.

Sin wanted to know, did you fix Todd's makeshift server wall thing?

Remember the thing we were working on?

Okay.

Are you talking about the home server?

Yeah, that's a future home server is what that's going to be.

Okay.

All that we did was we ran Ethernet throughout the house.

Yeah.

She's relying on, like, WI fi range extenders and, like, multiple WI FI networks, and it was a nightmare.

It's crazy.

So we.

We ran Ethernet throughout the house, and he has a central.

He has a centralized in a.

In a wall cavity, essentially, and like, little makeshift server box or something.

Yeah, it's for future.

We can add to it in the future.

Yeah.

You got options in the future.

Yeah.

Send showed a picture of his.

He's working on.

I don't know.

Is he working on a.

What do they call it?

A something something pie?

Yeah.

That's awesome.

What's those things called?

A something PI.

You talking about Raspberry PI?

Raspberry PI.

That's Home Lab.

That's Home Lab stuff.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

It's a great hobby.

Yeah.

Cool.

I mean, we're just talking about.

Do you own your games and stuff and digital rights and stuff.

That's a Way to bypass all that, you know.

Yeah, it's.

He's missing a lot in there.

Kingsley.

There's a lot missing in that cabinet.

You got to start somewhere though, right?

Yeah.

It's not just about owning.

It's not just about owning entertainment mediums.

Yeah.

It's also about owning your data and being able to do stuff with it that normally would have to be outsourced to some company that's going to be selling it to data brokers and a bunch of other stuff.

So yeah, let's see real quick here because we got a couple questions I want to answer here and we're running late.

Looking at the time here.

I've been playing some of my backlog games.

You know, I started Cyberpunk 2077 last week.

I've decided to go back and play the original God of War from 2018.

I just played about, I think four hours of that.

Getting into that.

It was originally made for the PS4, but I downloaded it to my PS5 Pro and it looks fantastic.

It looks beautiful.

The.

I've been watching more YouTube lately.

I watch it on my big screen TV in the morning when I'm making breakfast and stuff.

That's how I keep up with all the gaming news and stuff that's going on, especially in the Destinyverse.

America's Got Talent, Master Chef.

With my only TV shows right now.

There is a new season of American Trader coming back in about two weeks, week and a half, I think it is.

I'm excited.

I love the Trader is the, it is to me it is the best social experiment reality TV show out there right now.

And the people they bring in are always mysterious.

You don't, when they finally get voted out, they actually tell you what they actually do in life.

Like I've written five bestsellers on romance or you know, I, I own 10 businesses and you know, you always hear this stuff after the fact and you're like, holy crap, this guy was a lot more than he let on, you know, and let people know about.

So a lot of people lie and say what they do and it's just a really cool social experiment.

So it starts I think September 12th or something like that.

I'm not sure, but it's coming up.

A lot of good shows are coming up.

The, the, the fall swing is coming.

Not to mention NFL football starts in September.

Looking forward to that.

I got my first fantasy football draft this Saturday.

I'm number one pick and I haven't done any homework yet.

I need to do some sample drafts.

I got to Start doing my homework on that.

So I'm going to be busy with that.

I did finally finish the final season of Euphoria and wow, it did not end the way I envisioned.

If you guys haven't seen this yet, it's on hbo, Max.

But beware, it is a freaky series.

It might be too much for some of us out there.

I mean, I'll leave that to you to discover.

But holy crap, what a crazy show.

My wife and I did see one movie this week using my AMC stubs, A list membership, of course, where I can see up to four movies, free every week on any screen, any format.

Of course.

I get free reservations online.

Don't pay any fees for that.

I don't get paid to say that.

I just think everyone should check it out.

It's a good value for money.

I think I'm paying 20 something dollars a month for that.

Shoot, you watch one movie and you've pretty much covered it.

20 Dollars a month for that 20 something bucks?

Yeah.

What did you get the annual plan or something?

No, we pay every month.

20 Something bucks, four movies, free every week, any screen, any format.

You're not believing.

Not believe me.

Plus I can get.

Plus I can get discounts for my mom and dad.

My mom and dad want to go see a movie with us.

I can get discounts for them.

There's, there's some good benefits to it.

But anyway, that, that aside, we saw the new dystopian movie from Ridley Scott and you know, and every time I watch his films, I always think it may be the last one I see from him.

Because not, not because he sees crap, you know, not because he makes crap movies.

I mean, he made Alien.

But because the guy's 88 years old, like, like Clint Eastwood, I just wonder how long he's going to be keeping making movies, you know.

Anyway, the movie is called the Dog Stars.

And as I was looking at Rotten Tomatoes scores on it before I went to watch it, it was very mixed.

Critics only had it at 40%, but the audience had it at 71.

So I said, okay, knowing that going in, I'm going to decide for myself.

It stars Jacob Elordi from Euphoria.

It has Margaret Qualley, Josh Brolin and Guy Pierce.

Excellent jobs.

They played their roles very well with appearances by Allison Janey and Benedict Wong, you know, from, from the Marvel movies.

It's about a virus that nearly eliminates the world's population.

But of course there are stragglers that didn't either.

Didn't catch it.

Or were immune from it.

And it.

It rides along the same line as the last of us, really.

It's not about fungus, though.

It's more about an actual virus.

You know, there's crazy gangs, there's loner survivors that shoot on sight.

There's nothing really new in the movie.

There's.

But as we walked out of the theater, I asked my wife what she thought of it.

And, you know, because she also knew about those rotten tomato scores beforehand, and she understood why the critics might have given it bad scores.

But she said something that made me think a little more on it.

She said it was, quote, a proof of life type of movie.

And that really exemplifies how I saw it.

I mean, it compares the character's past zooms back to the present.

And a lot of movies do that, you know, for character, background, story, but.

But it's the overall vibe that kind of put the movie in its place.

I mean, to me, it was totally out of character from what I usually expect from a Ridley Scott movie.

But I gotta admit, I liked it.

It's not a summer blockbuster by any means, but it makes you feel a certain way as you leave the theater.

And that is always a big factor in my reviews and my scores.

So all that being said, I gave this one three and a half stars.

It was a really good movie.

It's worth a watch.

Maybe not at the theater, but when it does come out, we saw it on Imac Now IMAX theater as it comes out on the streaming services down the road.

Definitely don't miss it.

I think it'll be good.

Josh Brolin really does a good job in this, too.

As far as Destiny goes, we took the week off this Saturday from the night, you know, the Saturday night Raid Crew play session.

So I played a little cyberpunk and then played some more games from the arcade behind me here.

And I think this Saturday, it's to be determined.

We don't know what we're going to do because it's Labor Day weekend.

I think one of us at least is going to be missing out this week.

So I'll let you know.

I'll try to make an announcement in the discord if the team's getting back together this Saturday.

A shout out to my fire team.

It's Allocate Running Red Lions, Send Media, of course, Kingsley Mac and Zombie Pops.

And, you know, I really look forward to Saturday nights because it's really the only time I have to play Destiny 2 these days.

Like I said, I'll try to announce something if we do decide, we stream on Saturday nights at 10:30 if anyone wants to tag along and listen.

What's up, dad?

What would.

What would Astrasys do?

Astro.

What?

What.

What's the dude's name?

The.

The.

Oh, Astocross.

Astocross.

What would Astocross mean?

Aztec and Cross.

Aztec Cross.

That's.

Yeah.

Mind blown, right?

Yeah, that's his name.

Everybody in this discord knows who Astocross.

He would say, Saturday night, we are going to do something epic.

We're going to go into a dungeon raid.

That's probably how he talks if he has a million viewers.

I swear, Sam.

Destiny 2, this is going to blow.

Your mind think bigger than ever.

I did.

I do.

It's not a hidden sponsor.

AMC is not a hidden sponsor of this show.

Believe me.

I looked into maybe a possible sponsorship or some kind of.

What do they call it?

You know, where you.

You like a.

What is it?

Affiliate.

Affiliate.

Affiliate sale or something where I get a cut if they decide to sign up.

They don't have anything.

I mean, this is how fricking ancient this.

This.

All the theater companies are out there.

There's no affiliate program for amc.

So, no, I don't get paid for it.

I'm just spreading the word.

It's a product I like, It's a service I like, and I'm just passing it along.

Anyway, we do have a couple questions, Cam, so let's take a small break here.

We'll come back with questions for the show.

Hey, Guardians, would you like to send a question for the show to us?

There's several easy ways to do it.

First, join our Discord server.

That's Discord gguarding Downcast.

There's also a join link in our show notes down below if you just want to click and join.

We have guardians from all walks of life and all over the world, from New Lights to Day One players to hardcore gamers.

There's also a channel labeled Podcast Questions where you can type in your question for the show.

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You can also email us with your question@guardian downcastmail.com or we occasionally post something in an upcoming show or guest on our edge handle, guardiandcast.

Finally, you can send us a voicemail with your question@guardiandowcast.com and we might play it on the show.

Think of it as talking with us right on the podcast.

Hey, I love voicemails.

So let's hear them.

Thanks for listening.

And later, Garden.

We got a couple questions here, Cam.

This is from Nate Footpix.

This is Nate Fu.

Xbox just put hourly caps on cloud gaming.

Do you think GTA 6 was responsible for this change?

Since it would have allowed PC players and gamers with older consoles to use the service to experience it.

4K, 30 frames per second and it being strictly single player, would have been manageable by most high speed connections.

I realize it's not a game pass title, but it could have been purchased and played.

What do you think, Cam?

They put an hourly cap on cloud gaming.

This is the reason why we need to have digital rights to own games.

Probably just some data center stuff.

Think it is.

It's like, hey, we gotta throttle some stuff, guys.

We gotta make room for this new model.

We gotta throttle guys.

Gotta take a step back.

That's probably, that's probably what it is.

I don't know.

Okay.

Asha Sharma's running the show.

Listen, they have to do before GTA 6.

I mean, come on guys.

That's gonna be a total soul eater.

Yeah, guys, you've said that already.

He has a point.

He has a point.

Okay.

He has a point.

Okay.

Yeah.

And the fact that it's only 30 frames even on a PS5 Pro, it's just crazy.

But I mean if it's not like a shooter game where you have to flip around and 360, no scope people and stuff, I think 30 frames would work.

As long as the resolution's there.

I don't know.

We'll find out.

We'll find out for sure.

One of our newer members, Varro, he says.

Hey guys.

So with the hype surrounding GTA 6, it has already seemed to have a new set, a new standard for open world game experiences.

What do you think gamers will expect from future games after its release?

For instance, the Witcher 4, despite it being a different game genre, RPGs like the Witcher 4 include massive worlds.

You can easily get immersed in the details of the world.

The storytelling, graphics and the overall amount of content.

Do you guys think the other developers will realistically be able to keep up?

Do we place a game like GTA 6 on a different pedestal?

It already seems like the public already has and we are a little over three months before the game even launches.

Thanks for reading my question.

Yeah, you're welcome.

Barrel, what do you think about that?

Cam?

They're just realities of scale.

If you're saying this, the most money that's ever been put into a game before, it's like one of the biggest studios, one of the, you know, all this other kind of stuff, you Gotta take that into account was the first part of the question about how will,.

What do you think gamers will expect from feature.

From feature games like Witcher 4 for instance?

Probably they're probably going to get, they're probably games are probably going to come out faster.

I hope there's less like significant burnout in the developing team.

That seemed to be like a pretty, pretty standard thing for a really long time.

This is about like AAA games, right?

Yeah, I think so.

If it is, it develops that other developers can't meet.

Yeah.

I again I just think GTA 6 probably gonna be like a one on one with stuff like the Witcher.

I mean these games are also timeless in a way.

Yeah, like, like I remember playing Witcher 1 and Witcher 2 when Witcher 3 came out.

Right.

And they held up pretty well.

Maybe some funky controls here and there, maybe some like outdated graphics and stuff like that.

But the thing that Witcher 3 really leaned into is like the open world aspect of it.

I think that worked out really, really well.

Yeah.

Witcher 4 is probably gonna be the same thing where you're probably gonna be able to spend hundreds of hours in the game if you really want to or you can, you know, go through the story beats.

You know, if, if you're, if you're a cinema watcher like my dad and you've got, and you've watched the seasons of the show.

I just want to find out what happens to Siri.

What happens to Siri.

I have watched all the seasons so.

Some people are just going to go through it.

I think the bottom line is for AAA games I've never really had like expectations.

I really only play like indie games.

I, I'd say a lot of the time with AAA games like any expectations set forth for them usually fall short.

It's not always the case.

Like when they do it right, like I'm sure Bethesda is going to put out a really, really great Elder Scrolls game.

I'm sure that GTA 6 is going to be phenomenal.

I'm sure they make another Red Dead Redemption or something.

It's going to be phenomenal.

I think that more so comes down to not, not necessarily like the it being aaa, but because of the specific like development studios that are involved in like creating those games because they have like a certain like soul or like, I don't know, je ne sais quoi about them or something like that.

But when you look at like what like Ubisoft, like all these different publishers that like put out AAA games, I Mean, Ubisoft put out so much trash.

I just, I think it really comes down to like the developing or the developers themselves and the studios when you're looking at like large games like that.

See, I think, I think the opposite.

I mean we just saw a game by two brothers, an indie game in France.

Freaking.

That's what I'm saying.

You can make way better games as an indie developer than you can when you have to go through like this huge amount of bureaucracy.

Well, that's what Asha Sharma did, the shareholders, she says, she says there's 11 levels in the Xbox paradigm or whatever you want to call IT, the environment, 11 levels of management.

She goes, that's ridiculous.

And she thinned it out, made it more simple.

I mean this is someone who is not a gamer who came in as looking as a business person and said, what the hell is going on here?

This is ridiculous.

I think, I think Tassie put out an article about that or something.

I can't remember who did it.

Maybe it was another YouTuber, talked about all the different levels and how people didn't have to disagree with a new concept for the game, but they would push it along to someone, it wouldn't say no, but they would push it along to another part of management.

And it literally, people were just pushing, pushing that idea along until they finally decided whether to put it in the game or not.

And that's what reason some game development takes so long.

But I think just gaming period, Vero is going to be on a higher pedestal as we get closer and closer to photorealism.

I think it's inevitable, especially when you start putting AI into the picture.

And AI is still a big question mark on what it's going to do to the world and society.

But yeah, I don't think I'm worried about other games keeping up with GTA 6.

I, I think these big AAA games need to take a look at some of these independent studios and I honestly think this Rasson Studios, this French brothers who made this shooter, I think they went a little too far because I have no interest in playing that game because it's way too hardcore, man.

I mean, I'm going to be playing this on a controller.

I need to be able to have some aim, assist and feel like at least I have some control in the game.

If I want real life, I'll grab my AR15 and go out in the woods and shoot it, you know, that's real life.

I don't need a game to do that for me.

So.

But anyway, yeah, good question.

Good question though.

Yeah, we are watching Ted Lasso Sin my wife and I are and so far I like it.

So far it's been pretty good.

I think we're on episode three of Ted Lasso.

Apple's man, Apple's killing it, man.

They've got some really good shows.

I went through Apple because I haven't been watching shows on their platform in a while.

There are so many shows that I want to watch that are all on my wish list that I just haven't had time to get to.

And they're all bangers, man.

Even Invasion has a new season.

I used to love Invasion, man.

It was like an alien invasion type movie, like realistic one.

I thought that was done so well too.

Dorath in our Twitch chat says I don't even give a damn about GTA 6 to be honest.

I mean some people I think are not going to play the game but man, like Cam said, a majority of people this is going to be their real life simulator.

I don't know man.

For me it's more curiosity.

I want to I'm always love seeing games rise to the occasion.

I want to see how realistic the game is.

It's not really my cup of tea as far as, you know, all the violence and stuff.

There's just so much frickin violence in it.

But I mean we shoot people in the head all the time.

And zombies or playing Crucible.

I mean what's the difference?

There's definitely a lot more realism though.

But yeah, Hey Guardians.

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Okay, you can unpause your show now.

Later, Guardians.

Hey, everybody.

Future Gator here.

I wanted to thank my son, Cam the Jellyman for hanging out with us tonight.

I think we had a lot of good conversations tonight and that's what I.

That's what I made this podcast for.

I like having a discussion a little back and forth, whether it's between myself and Kingsley Mack or another guest.

It's why I do it.

That's why I do it every week.

I may not know everything about gaming, I may not be keeping up with the latest trends and everything, but I love to game and I'm an old timer and, I don't know, I love to see where the future of gaming goes.

And that's why.

That's why I like doing this.

So, a lot of hot takes tonight.

I know.

And I promise this will be my last spinful theory about destiny.

I promise.

Really?

Seriously?

I see you laughing.

I'm serious.

This is the last spinful theory I have about the Destinyverse.

But man, will it be crazy if it actually comes true.

I guess in two to three weeks we'll find out, right?

If Astacross was just baiting us or whether he really does know something that we don't.

Maybe it's a new game from Bungie that's not destiny.

I don't know.

I mean, it could be all different possibilities, but.

But from what I could gather from him, he just something he's not saying.

And then Paul Tassey says, you know, where there's smoke.

What's that about?

So it just gets my gears going.

Just like the old days in Guardian Downcast, you know, when we talked about destiny every week.

You know, it's funny, speaking of Copium, I mentioned my little spinful theory in our mod chat today before I went live on the show tonight.

And we had a little bit of back and forth and, you know, the usual pessimism.

But one of my mods from across the pond, this is Mr. Hades, said something that kind of resonated with me and I wanted to share it tonight.

I told him I'd give him a shout out too.

I was talking about how I think, you know, Astrocross is Holding back.

And I think they're gonna do, you know, my destiny online idea.

You guys already heard about that.

But Hades says this.

He says, you know what, if we are all snorting a load of copium, then what's the downside?

It's a game that's been there for us for so long and has done so much for us.

I know personally this game has helped me find the best mates I've had.

Probably helped in a way to get me out of a shitty relationship.

Definitely helped me get over another shitty relationship.

Or at least the pub has helped me with a third.

I know Doc said he's going to vet the next one, so I'm hanging on to hope that it's not getting chucked in the bin.

Then why not?

I will always cherish that game and everything it's done for so many people.

Jesus, how much money has been raised through it to save lives too?

I saw a post about how destiny is for many a third space people have work, home as the main two, but a third being like the local pub, a club, park or whatever.

For many, destiny is that it's the place we go that is always predictable.

That goes into my control that I talk about in my topic tonight.

We go in, we know a good what's going to happen, our people are there and it's like home from home.

We feel safe there and people don't want to let go of that just yet.

So I wanted to give a heads up to Hades, one of our mods from across the pond in the uk.

I've actually met this gentleman in person.

Very intelligent young man.

Yeah, he's quite a bit younger than me.

He's probably my son's age that I just spoke to tonight on the show, and he's wise beyond his years, let me tell you.

So thanks Hades for that input.

Just want to give him a shout out and thank him for that comment today because it really got me thinking before I went live tonight on the show also, you know, we talked about why we game.

You know, it's that element of control or the fact that there are no repercussions if we mess up, we make a mistake in game and maybe my son's onto something.

Maybe it is a merging of that flow state.