The Era of the Backlog and We Revisit Destiny's Unvaulting Plan #381

Foreign.

We're Guardian Down Roundtable.

Each week we pull up a chair to talk gaming, the news, the hot topics and our current obsession.

We bring you, our community, directly into the conversation.

So grab a seat, settle in and welcome to the table.

What's up, Guardians?

Welcome to episode 381 of the Guardian Down Roundtable.

We talk about topics and news that impact our gaming hobby, all while keeping the focus on our community.

We go live every Thursday night, 9pm Eastern on my Todd the Gator YouTube and Twitch channels.

I should say we go every other Thursday live, then the Thursdays in between.

That is a solo show that I do, so you'll hear the audio and videos of those.

But every other Thursday.

So every other Thursday we go live 9pm eastern on my Todd the Gator YouTube and Twitch channels, as well as our Discord Live stage.

Hello, good evening Discord.

And like I say, you can watch, you can listen in right from our Discord.

And again, that Discord invite is Discord GG guardiandownroundtable.

We are a live show with an audio version available every Monday morning.

A new update on our website.

I know I've mentioned this before, I just want to keep mentioning this so everybody will remember.

We do have the video forms of our podcast now on our website.

So thanks to captivate, my new web host, my new podcast host provider, I can now post the actual video of the show along with the audio version and that'll go right to our website as well.

And that's Guardian Downcast.

All right, let us talk and introduce first our guest co host tonight.

He's been a part of our community for over three years now, a big part of our GDR Discord community.

He's the veteran Marine that has been on several of our episodes.

But you can hear his original interview back with us.

I think it was one of our very first roundtable episodes, episodes 262.

That was July of 2024 when he was first on one of our shows.

So please welcome back one of our community moderators and part of my weekly Raid team, It's Todd, AKA Zombie Pops.

How you been, sir?

How you doing tonight?

Good and good.

Always great to be here.

No, I gotta tell you, here's how tonight's show is put together.

I don't know if you guys saw or listened to last week's podcast, but I was, I was had time to think on, on everything that Josh and DMG said in the, in the blog post last week and I just started shaking my head.

I mean just we'll get into it.

But I, if anyone knows Zombie Pops in the, in the discord, he is a very laid back guy and we don't only share our, our own the same name but we're actually in the same profession as well.

We're in the pest management business.

And he was most, he was the most, how do I say it?

Active in the feed, in the GDR feedback channel, in our discord.

And like I said, I'll read his post later.

But I said, you know what dude, we need to talk this out.

Let's talk this out.

You know, let's, let's, let's weigh the pros and the cons.

So that is going to be the bulk of our show tonight.

I do have some gaming stories that I do want to mention before we get into it tonight.

But like I said, I laid out my opinions last week about the Bungee blog post and my friend Zombie Pops here, we're going to, we're going to each give our two cents and then I've got some questions I want to ask that we in the chat can live can answer as well that maybe we can hone this down and maybe, I mean if anyone listens from Bungie, maybe they can get some feedback from, from our show tonight or maybe it can just go around the Internet that these ideas might be better or I don't know.

We'll, like I said, we'll get into it.

Of course, as per every show we'll do have our catch up segment at the end and then if we have any questions for the show or any feedback at the end of the show, we'll, we'll mention that as well.

So.

Well, without further ado, let's get into our gaming topics right after this.

Foreign.

Hi, this is B. Leahy and you're listening to the Guardian Down Roundtable.

All right, Todd, the first thing I wanted to talk about tonight is this.

They did a study of the gaming industry and they there's this trend that is beginning to happen that they, they call it the nostalgia exodus.

Why gamers are flocking back to their catalogs and you know, it said for decades we, you know, we've, the video game models relied on a certain rhythm, you know, hype up the next big graphics game, charge 60 to 70 bucks or 80 or 90 or 100 these days and watch the players go and play them.

They buy them, they play them.

But what they're finding in today's market analysis is they're tracking an unmistakable reversal.

Instead of chasing every new AAA release, adult gamers are increasingly retreating into their comfort food of gaming titles from their high school, college and formative years.

And the numbers are telling the story.

From what I've heard here, it says that this is Tracking intelligence firm called Newsoo revealed that over 60% of all player hours were spent on games that were six years old or older.

And when they dug further into the platform engagement, it was across PCs and consoles and brand new non annual releases accounted for less than 10% of total playtime.

Meanwhile, analytics firm Circana consistently highlights the older cohorts.

Players in their 30s, 40s and 50s represent the fastest growing spending power and the most loyal core audience in gaming.

But their play habits look radically different from the younger demographics.

They are less inclined to jump into new battle royales and far more inclined to revisit legacy franchises, classic shooters, foundational RPGs and curated remaster games.

The battle pass and second job fatigue the major driver they're saying behind this retro retreat isn't just the warm nostalgia, it's the exhaustion with the modern gaming loop.

They say the modern games demand daily logins, battle pass leveling, endless microtransaction stores and weekly event fomo.

For adults with careers, businesses and families, gaming as a chore feels unappealing.

Revisiting a classic campaign or an older multiplayer ecosystem offers something modern releases often lack a defined beginning and end, genuine autonomy over your time, and zero pressure to buy in Buy an in game season pass.

And they're saying this was what they call the comfort food factor in gaming right now.

And they also said that hardware is making it easier.

The shift has also been fueled by modern hardware meeting retro demand.

The PC ecosystem and handhelds.

Platforms like Steam Deck and retro handheld devices have made digging into decades of backlog classics effortless, and also the preservation and remasters.

A lot of studios are remastering games these days, and now we know why pretty much.

But this was an article by Kotaku and I just wanted to bring it up tonight and do you feel this is how you tend to game these days, Todd, or are we the minority here?

What do you think about this information that's come to light?

I don't know.

I have a lot of older games.

I just reinstalled red Dead Redemption 2 and I mean it's not that old, but it's still older.

I have Final Fantasy VII on my PC.

I play a lot of older games because you can go back to them anytime.

They're they're sitting there waiting.

You don't have to worry about the season passes.

It's not a, A daily chore.

It's not a second job, you know.

Right,.

Exactly.

And a lot of people our age, I guess, or.

30S, 40s and 50s, that's where.

The people.

Are.

We're the people that have the money, Todd.

We're the ones spending.

It.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

They're not.

They don't want to go work from working 40 hours to sit down and work for another 10, you know, on top of it.

Yeah.

You know, I got thinking about it.

If, If Destiny went back to live service, I don't.

I don't know if I would be into that or not.

I don't know if they went back to a live service environment where they brought out seasonal seasons and everything.

Again, I don't.

I don't know if I would follow that again.

I really don't.

Because, I mean, we all know.

Yes, I know, Kingsley.

I know.

I like doing my bounties.

And then that got.

That's part of my.

Believe it or not, doing bounties is kind of my junk food and gaming, because it doesn't require a lot of thought.

You're getting something.

You're getting a dopamine hit for completing the bounty.

And when you complete the bounty, you're getting sprite dust that you can use on anything in the store.

I mean, there's all kinds.

There's.

There's a reason to get the bounties done right.

And now they made it so easy.

They just put it in the Vanguard orders and they just automatically generate.

And even if they, Even if they have expiration dates on them, it doesn't matter.

They'll just, Just keep filling in with more of them.

And they're all very basic, you know, so that's why bounties, I guess, has been a big thing with when, When I, when I game in Destinies, because I can just sit back.

Okay, I need hand cannon kills.

No sweat.

Let's go to the Cosmodrome.

I'll kill a bunch of.

I'll pop heads with my hand cannon and be done with it, you know, and I get that instant dopamine.

But it is.

I mean, Destiny 2 is considered.

It's considered an old game.

I mean, think about it.

It's six years old.

Yeah.

2017, It's over six years old.

So, I mean, it makes perfect sense.

I mean, if, if, if.

I guarantee if, if Destiny 1 was in 120 frames in 4K, I'd be jumping back into Destiny 1 these days too.

So, you know, maybe Bungie needs to maybe listen up.

More and more gamers are going back to their old games that they used to play in high school and college and whatnot.

But anyway, I wanted to bring that up because I it was these are kind of stories that I've been kind of pocketing and I just haven't had time to talk about them in previous shows.

And I just wanted to mention that tonight.

It kind of goes along with our theme how we're going to be going into the Destiny talk tonight.

Next story I had was Steam has a new VR system called Frame and I did this came out in September and I had heard nothing about this.

Let's see, it's right here.

It's from mashable.com they said the Steam frame and what the early reviewers are saying about it.

It's a thousand plus dollars.

Trying to think I think I paid 300 for my for my Meta the 3.

I think I think the 3 is what I have.

I think I paid 3 or 400 bucks for it.

This is a thousand plus dollars.

It is a seamless wireless PC streaming Kotaku highlighted zero lag cable free streaming from PC is Valve's biggest triumph with the headset, the ease in use and comfort.

PC Gamer praised its setup free convenience, noting it eliminates the friction and fiddling typically a VR headset.

You simply put it on and launch a game.

Can't get any easier than that, man.

It's got a virtual screen for 2D games, so IGN emphasized its utility as a portable gaming monitor replacement, spending nearly as much time playing standard Steam library titles on a giant virtual display as native VR games.

And it has a unified hardware vision.

The Aftermath called it one of the most exciting hardware releases in years for attempting to unify multiple use cases into an open platform.

Now the criticisms Steep pricing starting at $1,059.

It comes with 256 gigabytes of memory and going up to 1299 if you want a terabyte in it.

Reviewers agreed the cost makes it a tough sell for general consumers.

Software and battery Woes this has always been a problem with my Meta Quest 3 is I can get basically an hour and a half to two hours out of it and then it's done.

I have to go plug it in and what do I do then?

It's not like I can slap in a battery and pull one out.

You know, I only have two hours.

I put the USB C in the side of it.

USB C goes in the side of it right here and I have to sit there and let it charge for at least 30 minutes.

At least 30 minutes.

So if you're in the middle of a game and you know you have to take this sucker off because the battery's toast, the screen just goes blank.

Just.

It doesn't give you a warning, it just says done.

You have to go plug this thing in.

Unless you have another one to boot up, you know, what are you going to do?

You know?

So, yeah, that was one of the, one of the drawbacks.

That's still a drawback.

It appears the battery is still an issue.

The short battery life, buggy launch software and an extra native and a thin native software library at release multiple outlets.

Call Engadget, Kotaku, Rock, Paper, Shotgun.

Question the timing of the release, arguing that the mainstream VR momentum is cool significantly and original VR game and development has slowed to a crawl.

But they say it's impressive.

It's a comfortable piece of hardware that acts almost like a stream deck for your face.

But they recommend holding off due to its high price and the sluggish state of the VR gaming.

But here's a.

What do you think of this, Todd?

Do you buy one of these, man?

So one of my kids, he has Meta something but he, he has a battery pack that he can plug into it while he's playing it.

Really?

So it charges?

Yeah.

That was of course extra.

Oh yeah,.

Yeah.

So like there are paraphernalias for it to kind of.

So he can, while he's in the middle of a game, he can take the battery back out and put another one.

In.

Yeah.

Oh, I didn't know.

Yeah.

And then charge and stuff.

Yeah.

So that kind of helps with that.

But I mean, it plays 2D games too or, you know, regular games or whatever.

This, this new, the frame, I mean, that would be cool.

You know, just, you know, say you're traveling somewhere or whatever, you're in the hotel, you put that thing on and.

Yeah,.

You have a.

You have a great screen in front of you.

It's a little pricey.

Well,.

But.

I know with this you have to download the game into.

Yeah.

And if I had now some of the.

I think PlayStation VR had, had Steam integration.

You had to get some kind of special connector where you could connect it and you had to tether it to your PC and you could actually play your Steam games on it.

And like I said, a 2D screen that weren't made for VR.

But the problem is with the, with the meta.

With the Meta VR devices, you have to stay in there, stay in their ecosystem.

And if you want to go to Steam and play your Steam games.

There's a bunch of plugins and wires and stuff.

The nice thing about this is you just take it anywhere.

It's all wireless.

Yeah.

And it's already got the Steam.

I guess the Steam library, your Steam library built into it.

Man, I don't know, man.

This looks pretty.

If.

I could play some of these games, like on a screen that big, like right in front of my face, I mean, that'd be.

That'd be kind of cool.

I'm not gonna lie.

Wonderful.

You know, even.

Not the.

The virtual, you know.

Yeah.

Element of it.

I wonder if it'll allow you to use a regular controller with it because, you know, Steam lets you do that.

I'm sure the Steam controller will work in.

It.

Maybe.

Dude, can you imagine?

I think I would actually get into that.

I would.

That wouldn't be too bad.

I mean,.

You know, or even like a keyboard and a mouse.

Yeah,.

The.

Right.

Yeah.

Just using it as a separate unadditional screen or second screen.

With the, with the Meta quest, you have to use the.

Right.

You have to use these.

Right.

And hand triggers like this.

You know, you have these triggers.

You open your hand.

It'd be nice if you just had the controller and it could sit there.

Just sit on the couch and play, you know.

I don't know, man.

That's.

That's.

You know, I agree.

The timing's not the greatest.

And one terabyte for 1300 bucks.

But I tell you what, though, I, I did the, I did the, the.

The demo test for the.

For Apple's vision, whatever it's called.

I can't remember what it's called now.

3,500 Bucks, man, that, That's.

That's too rich for me, man.

But 1200 bucks.

I don't know, man.

I'm.

I'm thinking about this, you know, I'm.

To the point in my life where I.

If I want something, I just go buy it.

I'll just go have to go sell Termite job, you know what I'm saying?

So, dude, I mean,.

Go dig a trench with.

You.

But, but, but here's the thing.

When's the last time I played this?

It's been a while.

Yeah,.

It's been a while since I played this.

Yeah.

I mean, I can, I can watch.

I can watch YouTube in this thing.

Problem is it only lasts two hours.

It's.

Yeah,.

Maybe that's a good thing.

That it lasts two hours is.

That way it makes you take it off so you don't go cross Eyed playing on it,.

Take breaks and.

Yeah,.

Yeah.

And I think having more competition in that space will probably help.

With.

Things as well.

And Steam does been doing good things, you know, so it might bring some more fresh air into it, more ideas and expand it more.

Yeah, and I just did a story a couple weeks ago when Deadpool was on about about how Sony sold all of its patents, not as newest ones, but all the older patents.

They sold them all to Meta.

Meta bought them all up.

So I don't know what that means exactly, but the fact that Sony's selling those patents, that's gotta mean something.

I mean that just tells you that Sony's really just about to let go of the VR, the whole VR market just give up on it.

I don't know.

Anyway, I wanted to mention that I didn't know it came out in September.

I did not know it's called the Steam Frame.

I'll have to just do some research on this and see what people are saying about it.

I mean this is what the major outlets are saying.

Just Todd, just the fact that it's wireless and it can connect to my PC library, man, that's pretty cool.

That's pretty badass.

Yeah, exactly.

Okay, next story is about Steam as well.

Did you know that they are changing their wish list?

They found basically in a nutshell that people were putting stuff on their Steam Steam wish list, but no one was really buying.

I mean they were putting it on the Steam wish list, you know.

You know, so they can bookmark it or whatever or remind you when it comes out and stuff.

And I'll admit I had the latest Bond game on there and it's reminded me several times that it's on sale.

Hey, it's on your wish list.

It's on sale this week.

I'm like, meh, eh,.

You.

Know, I'll look into it.

But they said that there was three main things they talked about on this.

They said the launch day collapse and the backlog economy.

In the first half of 2026, Steam revenue from brand new releases dropped by 390 million.

That's sliding down from 2.79 billion to 2.4 billion.

And all actual platform growth this year came from catalog titles, not new debuts.

And that ties in with the story we just talked about, about people going back to their, their, their classic games.

62% Of the most active gamers refuse to buy games at full retail price anymore.

Launch day is no longer the payday it used to be.

And they call this the wish list Trap bookmarks instead of baskets.

That's what I just said.

I said it's a bookmark.

That's all it is.

It just reminds me that it's out there.

Steam Next fest demos only convert around 15.9 to 23.2% of demo players into Wishlists.

Worse, typical wish list to sale conversion rates hover around the average of 14 to 22% dropping into a brutal single digits for big budget titles.

For most players hitting Wishlist isn't intent to purchase.

It's just a bookmark waiting for a 50 or 75% off sale notification two years later.

So Steam's overhauling this.

Valve rolled out a custom wishlist categories, calendar integrations, custom notification triggers so games can sustain sales over a long tail rather than dying in just one week.

Big publishers can brute force marketing, but a missed launch week crushes smaller studios.

You know, who don't have the Runway to wait around for several seasonal sales.

The real structural fix would be Valve offering an Apple style small business tier dropping their 30% store cut down to 15% for studios under a million dollars.

But yeah that's they're they're changing up how they do the the Steam wish list.

So I guess when you wish list something here in the future, keep an eye on it and see see what you know what Valve is doing differently to get you to purchase that game.

I know they just be just been sending me like little notifications like hey, it's on sale, come on, come on, 007's on sale, let's go get it.

Yeah, that kind of.

Thing.

One last thing I wanted to talk about.

We talked about AI and gaming and how everything has been crazy and all these emulators are popping up in the gaming environment and this is something I want to talk about when Deadpool was here but we just ran out of time.

But there I wanted to give you some examples of what's going on in AI right now.

The first one was one I wanted to talk about a couple shows ago and that Bloodborne has actually been ported over to PC.

Now Shade PS4 and the community race an open source emulator, Shade PS4 saw rapid breakthroughs progressing from booting simple 2D indie titles to rendering 3D PlayStation 4 exclusives.

Community contributors attributed achieved major milestones by getting Bloodborne running natively on PC hardware, unlocking 60 plus frames per second at 4K resolutions, fixing audio and lighting sync and experimenting with peer to peer multiplayer patches.

Native PC recompilation and decompilation projects, Ship of Harkonnen Open goal and N64 recomp these are emulators they're talking about here, rather than standard runtime emulation, which mimics foreign hardware architecture.

Community developers reverse engineered and decompiled original game roms into clean C C source code projects like Ship of Harkonnen, the Legend of Zelda, Ocarina of Time.

To ship to Harkonnen, Majora's Mask and Open Goal, JAK and Dexter allow players to compile native PC ports featuring Ultra Wide Monitor support, uncapped frame rates, modded modding hooks, and gyro aiming.

The newer N64 recomp tool automated this process, allowing static recompilation of titles like Major's Mask and the World Is Not Enough in minutes.

Apple in April 2024, following European Union regulation pressure and broader antitrust scrutiny, Apple revised its App Store review guidelines, specifically Rule 4.7.

Kingsley probably heard of that.

To officially permit retro video game console emulators, independent developer Riley Testute launched Delta all in one emulator for NES, SNES, N64, GBA and DS, which instantly vaulted to the top of the App Store charts worldwide without requiring side loading or jailbreaking.

That is amazing.

Nintendo community emulation faced substantial legal fallout.

Well, big surprise, Nintendo suing somebody.

When Nintendo filed a federal lawsuit against Tropic Haze llc, the developers behind the primary Nintendo Switch emulator Yuzu, Nintendo argued that circumventing console and encryption keys violated the DMCA, culminating in $2.4 million settlement and the forfeiture of Yuzu's repository.

Months later, Nintendo directly approached the lead developer of the rival emulator, oh boy.

Ryujinx, leading to an abrupt removal of its code repositories and download mirrors.

Then of course, what we've all been hearing about is the automated AI reverse engineering and web port experiments going on right now.

Independent developers and researchers began deploying Frontier large language models such as Claude Opus to decompile translate and port legacy game logic into modern web frameworks.

Projects demonstrated automated conversion of legacy C assembly logic for titles like the Simpsons Hit and Run, Call of Duty, Black Ops Minigames, and Tony Hawk Skate engine Logic directly into playable WebAssembly WebGL browser ports.

So that was just a few examples of I guess mainly emulators that they've that are out there right now and it looks like Apple's saying come on in.

And Nintendo's like so, and now you can play Bloodborne on PC if you know what emulator to get.

So I don't know.

I just wanted to mention that because we're probably gonna it's probably gonna come across our discussion tonight a little bit.

What do you think all this, Todd?

I mean, is this pie in the sky?

Is this fake news?

I mean, what is this, man?

What do you.

Think?

I mean, emulators aren't anything new.

I guess AI is helping with it.

But I have an emulator on my phone that's specifically for Game Boy games.

I have one on my PC that does pretty much everything up to Nintendo 64.

I think that generation PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3 maybe.

Right.

But so it's, it's, it's not new.

It's something that's always been there.

Emulation is.

Right.

But now it seems like they're, they're getting like source code and they're able to run it natively so you don't have to emulate.

Right.

So it's not, it's not as difficult or tricky.

Maybe it runs smoother and you know, the way it's supposed to.

Yep.

I put a news article in the discussion, the roundtable discussion about PlayStation's, I guess software is on PC or you're able to get it on PC and run game, but PlayStation exclusives and not have to worry about people emulating them or you know, hoarding them over or something like that.

Right.

So,.

Well, here's, here's the thing.

I think it's just a matter of time.

Here's the thing, Todd.

If we, According to.

So according to.

According to PlayStation, if we don't own the game, what's wrong with pirating it?

We don't own it.

Yep.

So you can't really get us for pirating a game because we don't own it by that logic.

Exactly.

So I think, I think that's going to become a lot more prevalent is quote, pirating or I think obviously AI is helping emulation happen faster and maybe more people are able to do it than in, than long, you know, beforehand.

Because usually you had to be a programming nerd to put emulators and stuff together.

Yeah.

You could probably tell your agent right now what you want to do and it would probably figure it out for you.

I never really have gone down that deep into the agentic AI yet, but I just do simple stuff, simple organizational things with my, with my agent right now.

But I don't know, man, I just, I was really surprised that Apple actually allowed this emulator to be in their store.

That's crazy.

People bought it right away.

I might have to look into that.

It's called, the emulator is called.

Shoot, I just had it here.

It's called Delta.

Riley Test Hoot launched Delta an all in one emulator for NES Sens N64.

You play DS games, man, on your phone?

Yeah.

It's crazy, man.

What's the world coming to, man,.

For?

I, I don't even remember what it's called on my, the one on my phone because I, I don't ever have time to play on it.

Well, that's a problem, too.

I, I, I mean, I pay for Apple games.

I, I have Apple one.

I pay for it all.

And.

My boy.

That's what it's.

Called?

My boy.

Oh, my God,.

My boy.

That's crazy.

I think I paid.

I think I paid like five bucks for it or something, but,.

Well, Kingsley had some.

I know Kingsley left, but he had some comments.

I want to make sure I mentioned him in the show.

He's not interested until there is an ocular implant or something.

Hate having something on my face.

Yeah, it's not for everybody, Kingsley, that's for sure.

Yes, Doctor.

Yes.

What.

What was, what was the name of the new.

I.

Didn't, I did not hear that.

Geez, I looked it up.

I actually came across my feed the other day.

Sentinel.

Yes.

Sentinel is the.

Yeah.

Is the new game.

That's crazy.

Yeah, it's.

I just, I don't even know what to think about future video games, man.

I mean, I just.

Maybe, maybe, maybe we're still too early.

Maybe it's.

It's not as crazy as it seems right now, but every time I keep seeing more news about what AI is doing in gaming, it's just craziness.

All right, well, those are our stories tonight.

Let's get into our main topic of the week.

Hello, everyone.

Elmer Fudd games here.

They say it's hip to be square, but really it's hip to be guardian.

Down.

Round.

Round is the shape not, like, square.

It's a podcast.

I hope you enjoy it.

It's changed my life.

It'll change yours, too.

All right, for our topic of the week, we are talking about the Destiny blog.

I know I just had an episode last week where I was.

Let's just say I wasn't this cheerful.

And I didn't.

I didn't glaze the Destiny and Bungie game as much as people probably are used to me glazing over anything Bungee makes.

But this gentleman right here, who is the most reserved guy in our discord.

He's.

He's the.

He's the Georgia bulldog that doesn't growl until he's provoked.

And, man, was he provoked because I want to read your poster real quick, Todd.

He says, okay, so I'm not sure if you're just rage baiting everyone or just me.

The reason that it's taking a full year to unvault stuff is like they have said before, it's not copy and paste.

They don't have to build everything back.

Or at least that's my understanding.

The reason they are bringing back all this stuff, including the boring activities.

And you had that in quotes because I must have called it out as boring, is what people paid for some time ago and should still have the option if they want to play it.

And the rotation of the seasonal activities.

It's no longer a live service game.

Nobody is rotating anything.

And I'll explain that if you don't want to play sundial or coil this week, no one is forcing anyone to.

And with that being said, I don't see why they put back old weapons the exact same they were when all other weapons, minus the ones hoarders, still have in their vault, even though those got changed during some.

During the sunset.

I feel like they've said these things, but I want to know.

But what do I know?

I just kill bugs for a living.

I love when you throw that in there because we're both in the exterminating business and I. I guess people look at us as the bug guys, you know, and think that maybe we don't have, you know, two marbles in our head half the time, but we.

We.

I don't know if you knew this, but as an exterminator, it's not.

We're just not spraying pest control bug juice.

There's so much more.

To it.

There's a lot more to it, man.

We have to be.

We have to be little.

We.

Have to be little investigators.

We show up, you know, when vested, you know, when the crime scene unit pulls up, they have to figure out what will happen.

We have to do the same thing if someone has a problem in their house.

We have to figure out, okay, where are we seeing it in the house?

Okay, you're seeing it in the kitchen.

Okay, let's go outside.

Let's start tracing where there might be some exposed areas, you know, where they're coming into the kitchen.

Or maybe there's something under the plumbing, underneath the sink.

You know, maybe it's something else.

Did someone bring, you know, you start asking questions, you know, like a detective does.

Have you been to a shop that you haven't been to recently?

Has something you bought, maybe at the store, sat out for longer Than you, you know, you know, you just go down the list.

And so people think bug guys just don't have any brains in them.

And I love that you threw that out at the end.

I just had to throw it in.

But.

Yeah, I, I actually found a mouse hole on top of somebody's AC unit the other day, you know, because I was on a ladder looking at the AC unit, figuring out where they saw the mouse.

Yeah.

But.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Anyway,.

We have to be little, we have to be little crime scene unit investigators when we show up to a house.

That's for sure.

And.

It's math.

If you want to stay in business.

Yeah.

And you know, a lot of pest control is science.

A lot of it is science.

You do A and B and you should get C sometimes.

It's not always that case, but it's pretty, it can be pretty scientific if you know what you're doing.

But the key is, like I said, getting that information down to what the proper treatment is for what we're doing.

Anyway, no more shop talk.

Sorry about that, but I wanted to hear your point of view first.

Todd, I know this is what you posted and one has your opinion changed at all?

And if it has, I'd like to hear that too.

But tell me what's behind your post there, man.

So, I mean, obviously it's going to take them time.

You can't be upset for that time frame.

Right.

If it was as simple as copy and paste, they would have done it, I'm sure, you know?

Cause they, they don't have that many people.

Um, and the, the longer it takes, the, the more people get frustrated and leave, you know, it becomes a, a cold item.

Out of sight, out of mind, you know, so I'm, I'm not glazing them or anything like that,.

But I didn't pick it up.

I'm sure.

They are, I, I, I'm sure they are doing what they can with what they have.

And like, if, if they wouldn't have unvaulted in the first place, like, I get why, or vaulted in the first place, I get why they did it because of the engine update and stuff like that.

Right.

So it's, it's going to take time and well, you know, they want to do it right.

Or so they climb, you know, so,.

And, and I, I had a commenter on YouTube on, When I put the video out, it was someone who had, you know, a couple thousand followers too.

And he says, dude, I'm gonna have to give you my very first thumbs down.

I do not agree.

I said they have to do it right.

You know, they've already spelled it out and I'm.

I stepped back a little bit.

I said, you know, Ma, maybe Todd has some.

Maybe there's some, some wisdom to what Todd's saying here.

So that's why I immediately went and invited you on the show tonight.

So see my biggest.

You know, they.

Bro.

Well, they broke it down, right.

Not to go back to what they said last week.

If you want to listen to that episode, it's in.

It's in last week's episode on our website guardiandellcast.com Episode 380 and you know, they talked about the stuff that they were planning to bring right away that was, you know, the Leviathan Red War forsaken the you know, the major content that was Sunset, the raids, Leviathan raid and all the layers that came with the raid.

And then they had stuff that they were.

Was kind of what they called a stretch goal, I guess.

You know, it might come.

It might not like making.

Upgrading the weapons to the current weapon system with the tiered system having the, you know, the random roles put on it.

Because I don't know about.

I don't know if you remember, but my inaugural address still has Kill clip and rampage.

No, it has.

It has a fast reloader and rampage, I believe.

Or that.

And either that or Kill Clip, one of those two on it and it's never changed.

If I go back and play.

Yeah,.

Yeah.

I can't.

I can't go back and play it.

So that's why it stays in my vault.

Because I don't want to ever lose that gun.

Anytime I want to feel nostalgic, I can grab my inaugural address and go shoot heads on the Cosmodrome or go somewhere else.

But I gotta admit, man, I think free roam areas are.

That's kind of need they put it in their stretch goal.

But I think that needs to be.

I want to be able to roam around all the forsaken areas.

You know, I want to be able to go back and play those.

Play all those, you know, when Cade was taken care of with a gun.

Spoiler alert.

But you know, I want to replay all that stuff, you know.

Yeah.

If I feel like doing it.

And we paid for that content now the, the.

The seasonal interfaces and seasonal weapons and stuff that they offered back then.

I don't think they should waste their time at all on any of that stuff because if you weren' there.

Sorry.

It was something you could only get during the season.

This season.

And the.

I Know I, I know I called sundial boring and I'm sticking with my guns.

I still think it was a. I dreaded doing the sundial mainly because it was a slog.

It was a.

It took those, those, those little round, those little rounds or whatever.

They took forever just to get a drop and the drop rate was so terrible back then, but those damn scions, man.

Anyway, but I, I think just to reiterate on my video, bring back the campaign stories because that's what the new players are going to need to play.

You gotta play Red War, you gotta face Gaul.

You gotta go through all that and then move on to the next, you know, the, the other, the other content that came with, you know, with the subsequent expansions, the dlc, all those campaigns and if there's rate, you know, if there's strikes involved in those campaigns and they need to come back as well, I think all the strikes should come back.

Which I think they integrated a lot of their strikes into their dlc, so that'll probably happen anyway.

Yeah, I think they're coming back regardless.

But what do you think, what do you think about them just copy and pasting the old weapons?

I don't think they can.

They can't copy and paste anything else.

Now, will they still have the inaugural address as a reward for Leviathan raid?

Maybe not.

They might just throw something else in the place.

Shut your mouth.

I'm just saying.

I'm just saying.

We'll talk about my inaugural address that way.

Man,.

It's.

You got me all worked up now.

Yeah, well, I mean, would you rather them rework it or leave it out?

No.

Would you rather.

Would you rather have the pristine version of it or a new version?

Well, okay, hold on.

Let's.

Let's clarify here.

I.

The weapons that drop during the Leviathan raid, the auto rifle, the shotgun, the pulse rifle, the launcher, all that.

If they're bringing back the raids, they need to integrate all those weapons into the new tier system.

If they did that, Todd, that is instant content for us to jump into and play every weekend.

I guarantee we'd be going back to the Leviathan.

Right, because we want to get the, we want to get the auto rifle with some, some and see, see if we get a tier 5, you know, just like we're playing desert perpetual.

We want to get the tier 5 weapons and armor.

I think that would have to be a no brainer, but the way they said it in that blog is that they were bringing it back and the only thing they were going to have revised Weapons with was the.

The menagerie.

Rewards.

Yes.

So I, Yeah, I think the Doctor says the weapons still exist in the game.

It would not be hard to have them drop from stuff.

I mean, I mean, yeah, the Leviathan weapons had static rolls, meaning you could reacquire them, but here's the thing, Doctor.

I've already got one in my vault.

I can power it all the way up to 550.

If Bungie is going to spend all this time to unvault all this content, they need to have the weapons up to the Tier 5 system.

You know, we can.

We can split hairs on the armor.

I mean, the armor.

We could just make the armor.

If they want to, just make it easy.

Just make the armor an ornament.

Have it.

Have them tack it on to whatever existing armor we have.

That would save them a lot of time from revamping all the armor sets.

Maybe give it.

I don't know, give it a special trade or something if you.

If you enable it as a ornament or something.

I don't know.

But the weapons, man, that's what this game's all about, is the weapons.

So the way I understood it, Todd, is that they weren't going to do that.

That it was.

You were just going to replay the.

All the missions and get the same old weapons with the fixed roles on them, like they did back in the day.

So you're saying they're not going to do that?

I, I, well, obviously I can't speak for them, but I.

That's the impression that I got was.

I mean, they.

They're going to have to rebuild everything anyway.

The.

Those guns are.

Aren't in.

In the loot pool still.

I'm sure.

Some of the Leviathan stuff.

In the game, but it's.

Some of it's already been altered.

Like for the Pantheon stuff.

Yeah.

Yep.

The hand cannon, you could get in the previous pan, not Pantheon, but the Horde modes, you could get the hand cannon.

Yeah.

So I don't see why they.

If they.

That way they wouldn't have to rebuild the weapons.

They would put the newer versions of them.

Yeah.

In there.

What they do have.

Yeah.

And then match whatever else was in the loophole.

Maybe.

Well.

Or fill it with something.

You know,.

What they could do is if.

If, you know, if the hand cannon's already available by other means, like the Horde mode, then maybe just put the other weapons that haven't been updated yet, that's.

That again, saves them time from having to upgrade.

Update those weapons.

My biggest thing in my video Last week was that they need to.

They need to update all the weapons, all of them.

Because that if they do that, all of us old dog veterans that have been playing this game for 12 years plus, it's going to give us something to go back and acquire.

And granted over time, we're still going to acquire them pretty quickly and be moving on.

But if I knew that all of the old Destiny 2 weapons and there's still a lot of them that we can't get these days, I could get them with the Tier 5 perks on them, you know, the Enhanced, you know.

Oh yeah.

Barrel perks.

And you know, with.

With you know, in today's system, then I will take back the 12 month thing because if it's going to take them 12 months to revamp all the weapons and maybe some of the armor, then I can fully understand 12 months to unvault all this and.

But if it's, if it's just copy and paste, I don't know, man.

So.

How many DLCs are they unvaulting?

Let's look it up.

No, let's look it up.

Let's just spell it out.

That way we can reminisce a little.

Right.

All right, we got Curse of osiris.

That was December 5th of 2017.

It has Mercury as the free roam, the Infinite forest.

Brother Vance has the Eater of Worlds raid lair.

Then you have the Warmind Hellas Basin will be the free roam area.

You had Ana Bray Rasputin escalation protocol and the Spires of Stars raid lair now.

So I'm guessing the very first year of Destiny was the Leviathan raid.

So that's the original.

Original raid.

So this is what came after the original.

You know, Leviathan and war.

Not Warmind, Red War.

The Red War campaign.

Yeah, this is what came after.

Yeah.

They were on about the raid layers.

Right.

You know, instead of doing full, full on raids.

I'm telling you, they were pretty good.

I thought they were a lot of fun.

They were challenging too.

Yeah.

This is like an extended strike.

Yeah.

You know, but I think that's why they went back to.

Yep.

But so what that's.

That took between those two.

That's year one of the initial DLC 2017.

Exactly.

Year two.

So.

Is the Forsaken.

And that's when they brought in the annual pass.

Forsaken.

You know, of course, Tangled Shore being the Rome free roam area.

And the Dreaming City, which is still unlocked, by the way.

I have to touch that.

You had the scorn.

The bows were introduced the last Wish Raid, which we can still play.

The Shattered Throne.

We can still play Season of the Forge, the Black Armory Weapons.

Season of Drifter.

That was the Gambit prime in Reckoning.

Season of Opulence.

This is the menagerie they're talking about.

And the Crown of Sorrow Raid, which apparently this is.

This will be included in that.

So.

Yeah, well, those are.

Those are seasons.

And these are the seasonal activities,.

So not.

Not really.

Right.

DLCs.

Not really DLCs.

So we would have to skip out on Season of the Forge, Season of Drifter, and.

But they say they're bringing back Menagerie, so maybe that's the one off.

Yeah.

Is the menagerie being the one off?

So no more Drifter, no more Gambit Prime.

Sorry, Gambit Players.

No more.

No more Forges.

I love the Forges because they were so repeatable and you could farm them.

The weapons were kick ass, but we can get most of the Forge weapons back now, so they.

They've already reissued a lot of those, so.

Okay, I'm fine with that.

But you got to bring back the original Forsaken campaign.

You got to bring back the Tangled Shore roaming area, the free roam areas.

All right.

Then you get into year three.

Oh, yeah, it's getting a little thinner now.

You got Shadowkeep.

That's when I went.

Remember we went back to the Moon.

The Pit of Heresy Dungeon, which we already have.

The Garden of Salvation Raid, which we already have.

On itself.

Year four was Beyond Light.

That was the Deep Stone Crypt Raid, which we already have.

They would need to bring back the Mission for Beyond Light.

Do they still.

The Missions for Beyond Light?

I think they do, don't they?

Yeah, I think so.

That's.

Still there.

So that's it.

You get the Witch Queen.

That's still available.

Everything else.

Is.

Yeah.

So the only thing we're talking about bringing back, vault wise, is I think Shadowkeep's still available too.

So.

Yeah.

All we're talking about here is the Red War.

The Red War campaign.

The Leviathan Raid.

The Curse of Osiris.

Mercury.

Free roam area.

The Infinite Forest.

Brother Vance, you know, he had the wheel of guns.

Yeah.

I would really hope that they bring those back because that's part of the dlc and those guns were beautiful guns.

I mean, wow, great job.

From the.

From the weapons.

Yeah.

I don't think we can get those anymore.

You can't.

Currently.

So that would be.

If they could upgrade those to the new tier system, that would be worth my time to go back and get the Warmind.

This Was the.

The warmind weapons that a lot.

I think a lot of these are.

Have been reissued as well.

Ikelios.

Yep,.

Yep.

That's been.

Reiss.

That was during.

Yeah.

One of the seasons.

Let's see, you got Hellas Basin.

Need to bring that back.

That's the free roam area.

And of course, escalation protocol.

I really don't care either way.

I know, I know it's fun, but it got so tedious after a while.

But you know what?

If everybody likes it, bring it on.

Bring it on.

That's just more work for them.

But.

But then, of course, the layers, the Eater of Worlds, the Spire of Stars.

I don't know if they're going to bring back the.

The legendary versions of those or not.

If they do or don't, who cares?

Then the Crown of Sorrow raid, that was under the menagerie.

So Crown of Sorrow, that.

I think that raid's been vaulted.

Yeah.

Yeah, it has.

Yeah.

So that they bring back that raid.

I mean,.

And the menagerie.

Yeah, they've.

They've brought parts of all those raids back.

All of them, anyway, in the red layers with the Pantheon.

So it's not like they're starting from scratch on all of them, but it still took a whole year to build each one of those.

Or most of those.

Yeah.

DLCs.

And that's just one.

To build it from scratch.

Yeah.

So they're.

They're trying to build four.

Okay.

You know,.

All right, I'm going to say this publicly.

If they are updating the weapons to the tiered system in these.

In these campaigns, the rewards you get from the campaigns, if they're not already been reissued, then I'll take it back.

I'll wait 12 months if I know that these re tiered weapons are coming back.

But if I go play.

If.

If I go play Leviathan and I get inaugural address with the same old rolls that I got seven years ago, I'm gonna have some words.

I'm not gonna be happy.

And the new player who already has tiered weapons, who decides to jump in and play the Leviathan raid, can you imagine them getting a fixed roll, inaugural address, and going, what the hell is this?

Which is why I don't see them doing that.

Okay.

If that happens, I will fully take it back.

Bring it on, Bungie.

Let's unvault it in 12 months, I think is fine.

So.

So would you be okay with a new.

A new weapon where you were able.

Like it say it's tier 5 when you can select the perks.

Yeah.

Would you be okay with that if you could pick the old perks it had on it?

Match them?

Yeah.

I mean, if.

Yeah, I just want choice.

I just want to be able to get.

I mean, what's the, what's the content loop, Todd, in this game, it's the random roles, right?

It's.

Yeah,.

You're getting drops to see.

Okay.

I'm waiting for these roles.

You know, you go to the.

The Armory or the Armory site and you say, what are the.

What are the roles Everybody wants for PvP?

What's the roles everybody really wants for DPS?

That's what I'm talking about.

Now if I get inaugural address, and it's the same old inaugural address that's been collecting dust in my vault for seven years.

What are we doing here?

Why are we spending time on this?

Well, well, the, the.

The new players, they, they.

They didn't have the opportunity to get that.

I understand.

But here again, the new players, if they're playing,.

Why should we include them?

No, no, no.

The new players, however few there are that are deciding to jump into.

I know they're still selling Destiny 2 bundles.

I get it.

But it's so cheap now.

I don't know why anybody wouldn't.

But what I'm saying is if they've already been exposed to the new tiered system just by going to Cosmodrome and shooting heads and guns drop and they're all tiered, which is what you can do right now in the free Rome areas, and they go play Leviathan and they got this weapon, it's fixed roles.

Then why are we wasting the time on this?

If so, if, if, if they clarified further and said, yes, we're going to update all the weapons to the new tiered system, then that is instant content for us veteran gamers.

We will go back and play all the Leviathan raids to make sure to get back those weapons.

I.

You know.

I know.

I remember.

I got the.

I got the, the.

The.

The sniper rifle from doing the Pantheon runs.

The Eater of Worlds runs.

We get sniper rifle and it.

It get.

If I remember correctly, it got random rolls.

So there you go.

There's another weapon you don't have to worry about.

The Leviathan raid.

What's up, Taco King?

I blame Todd the gator.

That is all.

What.

What do you blame me for?

Did you watch my video last week?

If you're.

If you.

I think you are assuming porting weapons will be difficult.

Weapons will probably be the least resource heavy thing they work on.

I'm not Talking about reporting.

I'm talking about reporting weapons and upgrading them.

Or I'll say updating them to the new tier system.

That's what I'm talking about.

They're going to have to make new perks for the weapons that it can randomly fall on these weapons.

That is going to take time.

But if they're bringing back the same old fixed role that they had back when Leviathan was here.

Yeah, I agree.

It's not going to take much time at all to.

To port those weapons.

Over.

I agree.

Basswindu says.

To be honest, I don't see Bungie dropping the ball like that, especially after they pissed off the entire entire Destiny fan base, other than their looks.

Name one weapon that is truly unique that doesn't have a refreshed version that can copy paste the skin onto a new system.

Inaugural address.

Never been a pulse rifle like it since.

Just saying.

It's a beautiful weapon.

Has no recoil, no matter what perks are on it.

It's a beautiful weapon.

You'll make void.

And it's void.

No, I'm telling you.

Look, I. I am the.

I am the.

I am the pulse rifle guy.

I'm telling you, there is no pulse rifle that looks and shoots like the inaugural address.

It is its own special gun.

It is.

Maybe I have too much faith in them.

Base window.

All right, I get that, man.

I get that.

I'm just saying, if they update the weapons to the new weapon system, the tier 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5, and we have enhanced perks and they have random roles that drop, then yes, that is worth waiting 12 months for.

But they didn't seem.

I didn't hear that in that blog.

That's all I'm saying.

I didn't hear that.

Only thing I heard that was going to be revised was the menagerie weapons.

And I went back and looked at the menagerie.

You know, you had to collect all these tokens, you had to throw this things into the.

Into the.

You know, had to combine all these runes into this cup and you would get.

You know, everybody figured out what weapon they needed so they would know what runes to put together.

Are they seriously going to bring back all the rune system again?

That.

That seems very heavy as far as bringing all that back, because that's kind of.

Isn't that part of the.

I'm pretty sure that was part of the opulence season.

I think that was part of the season of opulence.

Season.

Season of opulence.

Yep.

So I don't think they should bring Back the seasonal stuff?

Yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't think so either.

I mean, honestly, that's one of those things.

Like you said, if you're there, you got it.

If you weren't, then that's, that's too bad.

But.

All right, I have, I have nine questions I want to ask, and I'm gonna answer them.

And I'm gonna let you answer them, Todd.

I gave you the copy of them so you had, you had time to prepare.

The first question I have is, so if a smaller bungee that is still working on marathon content, by the way, is deciding to spend 12 plus months porting Leviathan, Red War Forsaken, and what we talked about into the current engine, does this action kill any real chance of getting a proper Destiny 3 before 2029 or 2030?

That's the question.

Before then.

Yeah, by 2029 or 2030.

So that's three, four years from now.

Yeah, I don't see a Destiny 3 coming out anytime soon.

Not that soon, maybe 2035.

But I think that's going to be the case regardless.

I don't think this is because of that.

The two things can be true at the same time.

All right, you want my hot take?

Here's my hot take.

There's never gonna be a Destiny 3.

So there might not be,.

Because they've already mentioned a forever Destiny in that blog.

And I think what they're gonna do is what I've been talking about since 2019, 2020, and as a Destiny Online game, a Destiny forever game, and they're gonna port all this stuff over, and then they're gonna bring the Destiny 1 stuff over.

It's gonna be one giant world like World of Warcraft's doing right now.

And what they're going to do is they're going to add seasonal, not seasonal, they're going to add DLCs onto the end of it, and it's not going to be live service anymore.

You'll basically just jump in there, you'll have this giant pool of content that you can play, and that'll be it.

Flip the switch.

Flip the switch.

So,.

Yep, no, I, I, I've been wanting a forever destiny since Destiny 1.

I mean, when I heard about Destiny 2, that's, I'm like, well, there, there goes that.

But.

Yeah, some, some comments here I'm trying to keep.

I want to, I want to make sure, I don't want to get too far behind in comments.

Amazing.

Taco King.

Just look what they did to the global loot pool.

That is going to be a system they rehash for every old weapon with a couple extra origin traits.

Base window.

Says the blast furnace was my favorite pulse.

Love that thing.

And I got a ton of them.

Base window.

When the.

When the horde mode came, that's the first thing I did, man.

I grinded that.

I grinded that.

I don't.

What's the name of the.

What's the name of the activity?

I never can.

I don't remember.

It's the.

It's the wave base.

I.

Don't play.

It's still out there to play, though.

It's one of the activities in the.

In the map system.

Amazing Talking.

What is the current system that they are using for the Pantheon?

Weapons that will be stretched to the raid reworks.

I'm calling it now.

Yeah, we're getting old raid weapons.

I got the sniper rifle from Leviathan.

What else are we getting, Todd?

I think we got the shotgun from the.

Yeah, the shotgun, the.

Sniper.

Machine gun.

Machine gun.

Yep.

Machine gun.

Not all from Leviathan.

These are all from different.

All different layers, I guess you could say.

Not.

Not just the Leviathan raid itself.

I don't have it.

It's all right.

It's all right, Ace.

Wendy says.

Wow, that's a long time.

Amazing time.

I don't think it would have affected that release window.

Regardless, the copium is strong with this one.

You're talking about him.

You're talking about him, not me.

I'm not.

I don't have copium.

I'm playing arc raiders, man.

I mean, I raid every Saturday, but I don't have the copium I used to for destiny.

I don't.

That.

Was the last time I played the Saturday.

Exactly, man.

That's the last time I played.

And I look forward to it because it is my destiny.

It's my destiny night.

All right, second question.

So let's just say they aren't scheduled to unvault the Red War and other campaigns within one year.

This.

You know, the year One Strike bosses and our current.

With our current powerful sandbox, our builds and our 3.0 subclasses, isn't it going to feel completely trivial and outdated within two weeks?

And once we burn through that content, where will that leave Bungie for future DLCs?

In other words, will there be another big lag in time for the other things on their list, like A reported Destiny 1 or Forever Destiny vessel?

I mean, with our.

We are so powerful right now, and I think Kingsley's already mentioned it, that the original raids are Much simpler.

Oh, they're.

Gonna.

Be,.

Yeah.

Today's raids.

So are we just gonna blow through this stuff?

I mean, I don't mind blowing through stuff if.

If it means I'm getting the weapons I'm farming, but what do you think about that?

That.

That question, Todd.

So if they're.

They're rebuilding it, they're.

They're going to bring it up to speed, I'm sure.

So they'll build.

The.

Well, probably not the mechanics.

They're probably not going to change the mechanics.

They might change them a little.

Tweak them a little bit, maybe.

At least that's my outlook on it.

I don't know.

You know, I could be completely wrong.

It's happened once, so we, you know, there's no real way to tell, but if I. I know they.

They realize if they don't bring stuff up, bosses up to higher damage numbers and stuff, they.

They understand, and it's.

Back to the.

Pantheon mode.

Yeah, there you.

Go.

Yeah, I. I mean, they've.

They've already brought some of them up, you know, to be in line.

Yeah,.

More so.

So I. I don't see why they wouldn't.

Yeah, I'm not reading that comment.

Amazing, Taku King.

Yeah,.

I. Yeah, that was my fear.

My fear is that we blow through these raids really quick, but there's a lot of people I've never played in before, so it'd be fun to teach new players the mechanics, because there are mechanics, and even though they're much simpler than today's mechanics, today's raids.

Yeah, I. I think I. I think they would have to, wouldn't it?

They'd have to.

They'd have to bring all of the bosses into the current system.

Because if you notice, they've re.

Remember, they reworked all the damage numbers.

They did a total revamp of all the damage numbers.

Hey, this is Beryl Barley, and you're listening to Guarding Down Round Table.

All right, my next question.

I wonder if this is a genuine gesture of good faith to right a historical wrong, or does this feel like emergency nostalgia bait to stop the bleeding of players while they sort out whatever internal projects they're working on right now?

What do you think about that, Todd?

So, I mean, it's been the experience with Bungie that they're.

They're.

They're trying to do the right thing.

Yeah,.

My.

My experience with Bungie, you know, it's not.

I don't feel like it's a cash grab, obviously, because they're going to lose a lot of money on this.

This is not the.

The only way this works for them at all.

Is it being to correct what they did wrong?

Right.

Because everything else is just going to be bad for them.

It's going to blow up in their face otherwise.

I. I don't know what to think about this question.

I thought about it last night and I'm.

I'm just.

I'm trying to think what.

I'm trying to think what Josh and Poria were saying to the Sony executives about the future of destiny.

My think what they told him.

I think they said, listen, you obviously got a player base here.

Why would you want to throw away this.

This franchise?

Why would you want to do that?

You paid $3.6 billion for it.

Why on earth would you want to throw it away?

Which makes perfect sense from a business standpoint.

I mean, if I buy, let's just say I. I spent $50,000 on a Corvette, like, let's just say like a 75 Stingray Corvette.

Okay?

I bring it home, and the thing is a piece of crap.

It won't start.

Once they pulled it off the trailer, I realized the engine's missing, transmission's gone.

Do.

Do I just.

Am I just going to go haul it off to the junkyard, or am I going to say, hey, we're going to keep this baby?

I'm going to find an engine for it.

I'm going to find a transmission for it.

I'm going to get this thing running because it looks great on the outside.

I just need to fix some stuff on the inside.

Okay?

Lesson learned.

I should have looked at the engine.

I shouldn't have bought it online without looking at it, you know, in person first.

Right.

I feel that's kind of what Sony's attitude is about Bungie, right?

Now that.

I know that's a terrible analogy, but I just run with it here.

They, they.

I think when they bought Bungie, I think they saw this nice shiny exterior of this beautiful Destiny game.

And then they showed them this great marathon game that was coming out and how space age and all cool it's going to be.

And they probably just went along with it, said, okay, we'll give you the 3.6.

We'll give you the money.

And they remember they had all those bonuses to keep all the people intact.

This is what really pisses me off.

They spent all this money, 3.6 billion to pay people bonuses to not leave.

And then what did he end up doing anyway?

They ended up letting all these people go.

All this talent with Bungie Studios is gone.

They filtered out into the gaming world.

Probably working for other companies now, never to be seen again.

These are the people who made the original Destiny game.

Or working on a Destiny 3.

I doubt it.

Yeah, so.

Sorry, go back to my point.

What I think Josh and Poria said to Sony is, listen, we first, we gotta start with a base.

We gotta have a good, solid base, right?

Let's unvault all the content that was vaulted.

Let's bring back all the, you know, have the player.

Have the full player experience so we don't have to give them a five minute in case you missed it video, which most of them just tune out and just say, I'll just figure it out.

Or they'll get frustrated because they don't know what the hell's going on and just go, I'm out.

It's like me, man, I tried to play Halo, you know, when I tried to play Halo, like Halo 5, I tried to jump in.

I was a Halo 4, maybe it's Halo 4.

I jumped in and ran the campaign because I said, I want to know what this.

Let's see what this Halo is about.

You know, because I never played Halo.

I jumped in and I was literally just fast forwarding through all the missions.

They didn't mean a thing.

None of the dialogue meant anything to me.

So this is.

I have to put myself in the place of the new player wanting to play a Destiny game.

This is the way they're feeling.

They don't know who Ikora is.

They don't know who Zavala is.

They don't know, you know, that Cade got shot.

They don't understand what.

Why that's such a big deal.

And all they have to is some, you know, in case you missed it, video.

It's like five minutes long.

And they talk about the history of the Destiny game.

It's just not.

It's just not good, man.

So I think they.

Josh and Pori, I think they had.

I think they told Sonny, listen, I think what we need to do is a Destiny online.

We need to do a forever Destiny.

Look what World of Warcraft's doing.

They're still around.

20 Something years later, they're still around and people are buying their stuff.

Don't you want to do that with Destiny?

What we'll do is we'll unvault the stuff that'll be phase one, the phase two will bring back Destiny 1.

We'll roll it into the Destiny 2 engine or make it somehow where it connects or something.

And then phase three will be the forever Destiny game.

That's when what we'll do is we'll roll out, will have small teams and they'll probably use a lot more AI in the future to make, you know, do all the programming stuff kind of like arc raiders did.

Do you guys got your drink handy?

Just like arc raiders did, you know, they made the game in three years.

Three years, 54 people made that game in three years.

And yes, I understand they probably subcontracted out a lot of stuff to off site people, but they did a lot of the machine learning with the enemies.

A lot of the stuff was done right with AI and machine learning.

So I'm just saying I think down the road, Sony maybe sees that that can be a possibility.

So I think, I think I kind of see.

I kind of see how it's all coming together now.

Now that I'm kind of talking out loud about it.

Yeah,.

This would make perfect sense.

So I don't think answering this question, I don't think this is nostalgia bait.

I think they literally are putting the base together for this forever Destiny.

I mean, if you're building something right and your foundation isn't correct, isn't square, isn't level, what happens?

You start building, it's off.

Yep.

And so you gotta start at the bottom where you screwed up and fix it.

And they talked about they probably weren't going to work on a new player experience.

They don't have to if they port.

Destiny 1 over there's your new player experience right there.

They're starting exactly where we did back in 2014.

Day one, I was on Venus, running around on my sparrow.

It was the greatest thing, man.

I wish I could go back to that feeling.

Holy crap.

There's like hot springs everywhere.

Look at this world, man.

Oh, my God.

There's a college, there's a school in the middle of this place.

And look how everything's growing up over it.

Like it's.

It hasn't been used in ages.

You know, you got all these invisible freaking sniping pieces of crap vandals that keep sneaking up on me.

Remember Switchblade?

Remember playing some of those raids?

And you get those vandals sneaking up on you with switchblade and you die.

And you have to start all over again.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Or.

Knockout or.

There's so many.

Good,.

So many good times, man.

And here's the thing, Todd.

New players could experience all that again in Destiny 1.

I think they would have just as much fun as we did back in 2014.

I really do.

Oh, yeah.

I never did ask you, did you play Destiny 1?

Yeah.

Okay.

Oh, sorry.

I'm just like,.

From the beginning.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But, yeah, it's, there's, I mean, I, I see on Facebook, like Facebook groups I'm in, people popping up all the time being like, hey, you know, I'm checking this game out since they're not doing any more updates for it.

You know, it's static.

So, you know, where's, where's a place I can meet people and,.

Right.

You know, play and stuff or, hey, what am I supposed to do?

You know, I'm new to the game.

I'm, I don't understand any of this, you know?

Yeah,.

I see stuff for it all the time.

So there, there are new people, new players coming in.

Yep.

Especially with it.

What's it, like, $20 for everything?

Yep.

So the, the new player experience is definitely something they, or at least the Red Ward, the story line is something that they, they have to reincorporate.

Right.

You know?

Right.

Well, we had a question here from Twitch.

He says, do you think Sony would welcome a trade with EA bioware along with Mass Effect, Dragon Age, and Anthem Op for Bungie and the Destiny marathon?

No, I hope you got it.

No, I mean, BioWare, they were unkillable, right?

They would never go away.

They're bioware, man.

They're too big to fail.

They're gone.

They're gone now.

I, I, I don't think that would be a good trade.

I, I, I think, I think Destiny is way stronger than Mass Effect.

And I played, I played Mass Effect.

I played the game.

That game is so old, man.

Andromeda is the latest version I played.

And that, that game was horrible.

Anyway, the next question, let's look at it another way.

Big picture.

Is the objective of finally killing the content vault really the only way Destiny 2 becomes a complete, respectable library title or just another incomplete game?

And I will go back to what we just talked about.

Right.

I think this is going to be the base for the Destiny Online, for the Destiny Forever game.

You agree?

Yeah, oh, yeah.

I mean, I, it's definitely possible, especially at this point in time.

This, you know, it's, it's all built up to this.

They, they, they're already working on bringing the full game back,.

Right.

Because they know people want it.

There's still people playing Destiny 1 because they're still logging in, their servers are still up for a reason.

So I think if they just, they bring the two together and just.

It's Destiny, you know?

Yep.

And for the record, amazing taco King said both to question two.

Yeah.

The difference being of course you can go back and play previous Halo games.

That is true.

That is true.

Warcraft is successful because it's too big to fail in modern.

In the modern space.

It had 20 years of buildup with the RTS games and let players live those stories out.

Destiny is a sci fi mystery that lets you shoot aliens in the face and tells you stories, but doesn't let you live the lore.

If anyone thought Bioware was unkillable hasn't paid attention for the last 20 years.

I get it, man.

They haven't made a game in forever.

I don't know what they were doing over there at Bioware.

Maybe being a service studio for someone else.

I know they were working on the latest Botzel.

The latest.

No, no.

It was the latest Mass Effect game.

But then it's kind of weird that they mentioned that at the very end.

Like, oh yeah, man, we, we, we were in pre production for a Mass Effect 3.

I'm like really?

Really?

I don't know.

Anyway, so.

Yeah, I totally agree.

I think that's the reason they're doing this.

Another thing I thought of this week is that this big technical, unvaulting project actually be the dev team stress testing the engine and its surrounding systems for a future Destiny Online game.

What do you think about that?

Think that would be possibly why they're doing this?

I think it's possible.

I don't.

If they bring Destiny 1 into Destiny 2, you know, or bring Destiny 1 up to speed, you know, across all the platforms and whatnot.

If they bring it up, up to where Destiny 2 is, you know, put them on the same, same plane.

Okay.

And we kind of talked about.

I don't,.

I don't.

Yeah, yeah, I, I don't see why they wouldn't use it as a stress test, you know, so I could, I could see that being a very possible thing.

Okay, question number six, also.

If they decided to fully update the loot system to today's tiered armor and weapon collection, would it, wouldn't it be possible?

Would it, wouldn't it possibly create another year of content for us Destiny veterans that love to complete our collections?

And I guess I've already been talking about that, that if it is in fact going to be updated weapons and gear, then yes, that's instant.

That makes perfect sense for us veteran gamers because otherwise why are we going to go back and play all this stuff if they are in fact doing this?

That's the million dollar question.

But Todd, let's be honest, man.

We do a raid weekend and we play Leviathan again.

How much are we going to want to go back and do that?

Maybe a couple more weeks.

Every, Every week really, for a while.

Well, you can, you can rotate them.

You know, there's.

The layers.

That.

How many, how many raids would that give us total?

Like 10.

So you could.

Yeah.

You could essentially do one every 10 weeks.

That's one to every three months.

And.

We can do Kate's Wheel of Doom.

Exactly.

We can make it fun.

But not everybody has that.

Not everybody has that, you know, has to work with.

Yeah.

And not everybody wants to play games for fun, you know, because back to the beginning of the show, you know, some people are playing games because it's a job like a job simulator.

And more and more people are not wanting to do that anymore.

That's why they're going back to their classic games.

So maybe this is falling right into the hands of the, of the, of the trend that people are going back to their classic games.

And this is an old game, hate to tell you.

It is.

Yeah.

And it's going, going away from the season pass,.

You.

Know, with the old stuff coming back.

No more.

I mean it.

I, I don't know if we'll still have a season pass or whatever.

Yeah.

You know, stopped right now because mine's full.

I'm almost back.

Been done with it, but.

Almost at.

Maxed out.

Yeah.

I mean, and there's no rush for it because we don't know if it's ever going to change or go away.

Might be in that position for the rest of the day.

Yeah,.

I would think that another thing, if they did the final.

The final.

God, I hate to say the final solution, but the final piece of the puzzle here for Destiny Online would be maybe an annual seasonal pass.

That would be a.

Maybe the final shape,.

Maybe formal form of income for him.

I don't know.

It.

Bring it, bring content in.

You could have a small team that works just on the loot, you know, new weapons, new, new, new exotic weapon like they do usually every, every season, make, you know, new armor ornaments and stuff.

Yeah, I mean they could do that if they were really smart.

If they were really smart, they could do what I told them to do a long time ago is make us just prestige, make a prestige system.

As soon as you hit Prestige 1, hit the reset button and then just like when you reset, when you prestige iron banner rewards, you get all new rewards and they may not be as fancy, but they're, you know, high High, highly valuable materials you need to upgrade your weapons and gear.

And then they usually throw in like a special shader, which always killed me because I would prestige and then realize I didn't have enough time for the rest of the week to get that damn shader.

And it turned out that shader kicked ass.

I'm like, why?

But.

But it made us play.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Why put it on the second row when you.

Made us play.

Where you can't see it?

Yep.

Yep.

Amazing.

Taco King is busy typing right now.

I'm sure we're going to hear more from him.

Okay, question six is what we just talked about.

If they decided to fully update the loot system to today's tiered and armor weapon collection, wouldn't it possibly create another year of content for us?

I just said that.

Sorry, Number seven.

Speaking of collections.

And I can hear Kingsley's rolling eyes, rolling his eyes right now.

But what if Destiny doesn't need a hard reset?

If you can keep your vault, your triumphs, your milestones into one unified franchise game, wouldn't that be a better decision?

To evolve a forever Destiny game?

Destiny Online, versus wiping everybody's slate clean.

We've had so many back and forth discussions over the years on players that want to hoard keep the gear they invested their time to get.

You know, it would probably keep more of the Destiny Guardians intact if they want, you know, they can pull out any weapon they work for and whatever game mode or situation they encounter in the future.

I totally on board on this.

I think what they need to do is, what we've been talking about for years and years is make collections.

Make it the vault, in other words, if I want.

Geez, what was the auto rifle from EDZ that had fixed roles back in the day?

If I could go back and pull that rifle out and whatever drops.

I'm assuming everything's been updated.

Of course.

Let's.

Let's think forward here.

If.

If whatever, whenever I get a drop of a weapon, I get those traits and those mods for that weapon.

It goes into whatever random access memory or whatever in the server on your.

A.

Library.

Or.

A library, like a.

Like a database.

And then you can go back and put your gun together just the way you want on everything you've earned.

Man, that is like so much content right there for us grinders.

And then pull it right out of collections for a certain amount of money or materials or whatever it may be that that's the perfect fix for an online game.

A Destiny Online.

Yep.

I. Yeah, I don't I don't disagree with that.

The.

The completionist in me says, no, I don't want a heart reset, but if there's a new game, there has to be a heart reset.

If.

If there is a Destiny 3, and if they don't make Destiny 2, Destiny Forever or, you know, whatever, then there has to be a hard reset.

Yeah.

Totally agree.

Yeah.

I mean, if it's a new game.

So Division 2, they have a library.

System.

For your weapons.

Yeah.

Where you can put perks on weapons and attributes and stuff, and it works great.

I was grinding earlier today, trying to fill some of it up because I'm trying to make the perfect weapons, you know.

Right.

So you have to pull them off of old weapons.

It.

It's a system that works.

It works really well.

Is it.

Would it work for Destiny?

I don't know.

Okay.

Because the.

The perks on the weapons, I don't know if there's enough of them and enough variants in them to do that.

Yeah,.

They kind of did it with crafting.

Yeah,.

They kind of a little bit, but.

Just.

Seemed like people didn't like crafting.

So.

I think half the people didn't like him and the other half.

Like, hell yeah.

Yeah.

I was mad when they took crafting away.

I was pissed because that was the con.

That was why I grinded the game at the time.

I mean, fishing can only take you so far.

After that, you want to go.

You want to go get kills.

But.

It was.

Fun.

Yeah, it was.

And all the.

I'm talking.

All they need to do is take the crafting table, interface it over our collections tab.

We don't have to go anywhere.

We just go to our collections tab and pull it out.

Yeah, I think that would be important if they're going to make a forever Destiny game.

My number eight question.

Does this past week's announcement make you want to log back in tomorrow, or does a 2028 target make you tune out until the patch actually drops?

I know it's a loaded question for you because we play every.

Every weekend anyway, but if.

If that was not the case, would that announcement make you log back in, or would you say, okay, I'll just sit back until 2028?

I probably log in more when.

When they unvault stuff.

Right.

More than I am right now, but probably not much more because I have way too many games currently installed and doing different things in and not nearly enough time.

So has.

It has.

Would Destiny be on the back burner?

Kind of.

Or maybe a side burner?

I don't know, but, yeah, probably.

It's probably not going to change much.

I probably will log a couple more hours a weekend, you know, instead of logging in once, one or two times a week.

Yeah,.

I'd probably do three or four.

So, I mean, I guess that's doubling it, really.

But.

I,.

You know,.

I think for me, it comes down to that, what they're talking about.

It comes down to trust.

If I trust that there's going to be a forever Destiny online and nothing is going to get wiped, then I would start continuing to finish my catalyst.

I'd work on stuff every week and start piling up my resources because I know I'm going to need those enhancement cores, I'm sure, for whatever comes in the new dlc.

And I want to be prepared.

That means I want, you know, I want four.

Four rows of 10,000 of them, you know, 9,999 of them.

So I think it's just the fact that there's no FOMO right now means there's no urgency to play it, that automatically is going to change how I play.

But also, you know, when I'm in the mood to shoot aliens in the head, I can just pop it up and jump in and play whatever I want to do.

Yeah,.

Love that freedom.

Now, if Arc Raiders could just do that, would be all set, everybody.

There are other games.

Yeah, there are.

There.

Are other games.

Or you can do that.

Okay, my final question.

What if this scenario was a reality?

What if a separate studio, this partner they're talking about, did all the unvaulting work and Sony would just greenlight Bungie proper to start production on a true successor DLC to Destiny 2.

Because I think right now, I mentioned this in the comments, Bluepoint Games, they were the remaster masters.

They were the studio that Sony would bring games to Demon's Souls for the PS5.

I've been playing that.

That's a beautiful game.

Shadow of The Colossus from PS4 2018, Uncharted, Nathan Drake collection, Gravity Rush, Iko, Shadow of colossus collection from PS3, and the God of War collection, not to mention Metal Gear Solid HD collection, they did as well.

And now Bungie, Bungie, sorry, Sony, they're no more.

They got rid of them.

Which I'm thinking they're probably kicking themselves right now, because that would be the perfect studio partner to do all this unvaulting and remastering, whatever you want to call it, and then have a small team at Bungie start planning out, start storyboarding.

Allison Lures Is there?

Sorry, Hammer Crasher.

I know you don't like her.

She could start storyboarding, you know, the next story of Destiny 2.

Yeah.

What do you think?

So I wouldn't be surprised at all if that's what's going to happen, because they already have the old framework.

They have the blueprints for the vaulted stuff.

It's.

It wouldn't.

I don't think it would be hard for them to throw another studio at it and be like, look, turn this into this.

Just bring it.

Bring it out here.

While Bungee, what's left of them,.

Right,.

Is using their cut numbers like they said.

You know, they.

They've cleared out the room.

They're putting their heads together.

They're coming up with the process.

While Bungie does that, the other team, they're.

They're doing the menial work, the tedious.

Now they probably would have somebody in Bungie, you know, watching over them, making sure they're not straying too far from the course.

You can have advisors,.

You know.

Yeah, exactly.

And honestly, I think that's.

That's how they're.

They should approach it if.

If they aren't approaching it that way.

See, here's my biggest fear with Bungie right now.

Only people that are left at Bungie.

I'm generalizing, so I apologize.

Employees of Bungie who are not what I say they are.

It's mainly the PvP team that's over there.

Tom Cotton, that's a big studio head that looked over all of the Crucible stuff, and there's a reason why the Crucible just rotted on the vine during the late Destiny two years.

Is that because the whole Crucible team wasn't there anymore?

They were making the Marathon game.

And my biggest fear is that I don't think that future Destiny 2 team is going to come from that team.

I think that team is going to ride or die on Marathon.

And unfortunately, they're probably going to die on Marathon.

But I hate to see those people go, because I love Crucible.

There's so many great people there at Crucible.

But if you look at it, if you think about it, all the people that have slowly, quietly left Bungie, a lot of them were Crucible team members from Destiny.

Destiny 2.

So, yeah, comments here.

Okay, say they port one into modern two system.

This is amazing.

Taco King.

And add all the vault content back.

What would be the point?

Will they eventually update the engine to the new Tiger Engine Marathon is on?

Will they try to port it to Unreal and save themselves a bunch of coding time.

You will never silence my keyboard unless you time me out.

No, I would never do that, dude.

And the doctor says EA really screwed up eyewear.

Well, EA is so heavily leveraged right now, they ain't gotta say they got a board now that has all the money and tells them what to do.

EA's lost all the power, man.

They're not running the show anymore.

Whoever was it?

$62 Billion, some crazy ass number.

I mean, they're.

They were leveraged.

It's a leverage buyout, which means they've lost the.

They've lost the power.

They're along for the ride.

And the reason BioWare went away is one, they didn't have anything that they could release right away that would make any money.

And they had to figure out where to cut the cost because the investors are getting a little antsy at bioware right now.

Let's see.

I would play more if my team showed up more.

Exhibit A is above me.

He's referring to zipping.

Zipping.

Where's my invite?

They made two decent remasters.

The rest were reworks or HD Update, not real remasters.

He's talking about Blue Point Studio, Bluepoint Games.

We now have WoW Forever and Division 2 DLC to occupy our team for time.

For now.

That is true.

And let's talk about the elephant in the room.

220 Gigs is going to be going in my PlayStation 5 Pro in about a week and a half.

Oh,.

Sorry.

220 Gigs.

I've already made room.

I got 300 gigs room in my PS5 Pro.

It came with a 2 terabyte hard drive on it, so.

Solid State hard drive.

But yeah.

So, all right, so that was the main reason I wanted to talk about it tonight.

I wanted to kind of have a discussion about this announcement and maybe, Maybe we're not looking at it from the right view here.

Maybe it's just too early to jump on the team.

And maybe Josh and Pori are trying to create that destiny online.

Well, we'll hopefully find out something in February.

I guess.

That will be when the timeline comes up, right?

Yeah.

Not the timeline.

Progress bar.

Yeah, yeah.

When we hear more from.

Yeah.

So I was reading all the feedback from this last week and I think the phrase I used when we were talking in discord about last week's show was I'm screaming to Bungie, the house is on fire.

The house is on fire.

And everyone at Bungie is just rearranging the furniture inside.

That's what my criticism was when I made that video.

Last week and like I said, Everybody never thought BioWare was going to go away and it's gone.

I'm just worried that Bungie will be that next big major story that we break is that Bungie is no more.

That's my hope is that.

Well,.

They have a plan.

At least they're putting effort in, you know, they're not just giving up, waving the white flag.

Well, I mean, let's.

Let's go back to before June or.

Yeah, June, when they said, sorry guys, we're not developing anymore.

Anything else for Destiny 2?

Destiny's done.

I mean, a part of me had closure and I was like, okay, well, it was a good ride.

Thanks guys.

It was a great ride.

And then everyone kept.

At the.

All this, the Sony events, they kept.

They kept throwing in all those Destiny 3 emotes and I guess that was the difference.

So anyway, that's where we're at.

Well, well, maybe, maybe the difference was Project Sunrise.

You know, I didn't even mention.

That was it.

I didn't even mention that.

And what, what is it going to become of Project Sunrise?

I mean,.

I mean, Sony will probably be able to, you know, at least legally say, stop doing this at the point when it comes back.

Correct.

Okay.

And I think that.

You think it had a.

Possibly have a hand in it.

You think it was a factor?

Possibly.

I think it was a factor for Sony.

Now, Bungie probably approached Sony well before that.

Well, I appreciate you talking about it, Todd.

I think we needed to have a good open conversation about it tonight.

Yeah, yeah,.

Let's catch up.

I'm sure we got a lot to talk about what happened this past week, so we'll do that right after this.

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All right, we're back.

Having Internet issues tonight, that is for sure.

That's the beauty of a live show, right?

Anyway, this is our segment where we just catch up, talk about what we've been doing in our life.

We'll start with, with zombie pops here.

What have you been doing man, since.

I know I see every week but what's, what's been going on in your life man since you've been on the show Last catch people up.

Yeah, it's what I like to refer to as grocery shopping at the coast.

Nice.

Filled my freezer up.

Nothing major, nothing great.

But food's food and I like that.

Yeah,.

You can't beat it.

Been watching some college football.

Go Dogs, by the way.

Yeah, a little, little game happened weekend.

Little game.

Yep.

It wasn't much of a game to be honest.

Florida never showed up.

So.

Yeah,.

Well, I mean if I, I could, I, I'll just leave it at that.

They, they embarrassed you all enough anyway so.

We were embarrassed.

I was embarrassed.

I, I, I think I, I think I turned it off at halftime.

The game was over at halftime.

It was 24 to nothing by the half.

The good news is our defense never let you score again.

The bad news is is we didn't reschre until the very end.

We didn't get a touchdown.

I think you guys ended with eight.

Eight.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was bad.

So.

But you know,.

Not our finest hour.

I don't think that's going to hurt our coach Sumrall.

I think he'll be fine.

I think the one thing they did mention is this was really not his team.

He, he kind of came in after all these players had been already prospected, you know, so he'll probably have people that he'll be looking for next year.

And I think what they said is this will be Summerall's weakest team as far as player personnel that he'll be.

And let's keep in mind too, I'm not throwing this as an excuse but our, our main running back is ball and he was actually up for the Heisman because he was such a, having such a success.

But as soon as we lost all of our wide receiver, all of our deep threat, we became a one dimensional team.

Other than 1.1crossroute receiver we have left and he's gotten banged up too.

We really don't have any passing threat right now and a lot of teams have figured that out.

So that's the biggest problem.

And I got to give it the to Georgia, man.

Our defense was strong.

We kept, we held them back the second half, but by then it didn't matter because we had no offense and a ball.

I think he got 30 yards the whole game.

It was really bad.

And that defense is tough.

And let's face it, the, the, the college teams that have a strong, at least better than mediocre offense, but have a really good defense, have a really good chance of winning the championship.

And I know you guys lost to.

Who was it you lost to?

Auburn.

Auburn.

They aren't even ranked, are they?

Yeah.

Are they ranked?

That's a, that's a local, It's a local rivalry.

No, but we're ranked number two, so.

Yep,.

There is that.

You just gotta get past Miami.

Only undefeated college team.

Ranked college team left.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They shouldn't be, but, you know, they almost lost to Tennessee.

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing about, that's the thing I love about college, Todd, is you got young, you got young players here and they're very exuberant.

They're, they're.

Yep.

Their play can be very erratic depending on how their week's going and who they're.

Playing.

That's, that's why I prefer college football to NFL.

It's so much.

Yeah,.

Because it's, it can be any Saturday.

It can be, it can be your last undefeated day, you know.

Amazing.

Taco King.

If you tell me you're a Georgia Tech fan, you'll make my night.

Oh, come on.

You will make my night if you say you're a Georgia Tech fan.

We.

Got some players.

Our quarterback, I think was from Georgia Tech.

They'll have their day.

Zipping like they have a football team.

Yes, they do have a football team.

Oh, I have no sports fan affiliation.

Oh, damn.

Okay.

That sucks.

He lives up, he lives up near Atlanta.

The reason I, I assumed that might.

Be.

The case, I, you know, it's.

Funny,.

I went, I went, I went whitewater rafting, like stage three, stage four rapids, really advanced stuff.

And we had a, we had a kick ass guide.

We, we had to use a guide because it was just too crazy.

And he was a big Georgia fan, man, where he had like a worn out Georgia cap and, and we would talk with him and he was kind of all business, but my God, once I mentioned Georgia Tech, he lit up.

I didn't know you guys hated each other that badly.

Oh, yeah, that's, that's a big thing.

So one of, one of the guys I deployed with, his kid actually plays football for Georgia Tech, but he is a Bulldogs fan.

Oh, my God.

Huge.

Fan.

How does he.

How does he.

How does he.

So.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I don't know, but it's.

It's hilarious.

That's nuts.

Well, it's.

So.

He goes to all the Georgia Tech games, but.

Oh, my God,.

Only because his kids there.

He can't be wearing a Georgia outfit when he walks in there.

He.

Might.

He might.

He's a brave guy.